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Old 29.09.2004, 14:40   #31
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First of all, I do not think Turkey will recognize genocide AFTER it becomes an EU member, but I do think Turkey will have to do a lot in this regard and in many other ways if it really wants to be an EU member

What I first of all mean speaking about the behavior rules is not merely genocide, but a whole complex of policies with regard to Armenia and not only. Being an EU-member would impose a lot of democratic norms on this country, which will help everyone in the region, including us.

It is another thing that I do not believe in Turkey's membership in EU at least in the forseeble future. You cannot apply for accesssion and pass a Criminal Code that punishes aduletry and this was just one example. But yes, if you ask me - I would like to see Turkey as a democratic state and as an EU member. Instead of being some semi-islamist latent bombshell that can explode at any minute it now is.
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Old 29.09.2004, 14:42   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur
Uhu...
In the light of recent news from northern part of Cyprus, the process of recognition of turkish part of the island as a state would not be an easy one.
i mean the information given by Justice minister of Cyprus... according to him, international terrorists, including those who participate in Beslan school siege, are trained in the Turkish-occupied northern Cyprus.
Just a slight comment here: Azerbaijani officials of all ranks and level tell the world Karabakh is a training ground for international terrorists. So I would not take such statements too seriously.
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Old 29.09.2004, 17:01   #33
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I would not like Turkey to become EU member, and it is not really about Armenia. Germany is already flooded with Turks, in airport in Stuttgart (capital city of one of the German states) the anouncements are made in German, English and Turkish. I don't think I could logically explain (or prove for that matter) my position but there is something about European culture that I would love to be preserved.
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Old 29.09.2004, 20:47   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by august
Just a slight comment here: Azerbaijani officials of all ranks and level tell the world Karabakh is a training ground for international terrorists. So I would not take such statements too seriously.
Sure, statements and even accusations are one thing, but facts prooving all that are another thing...
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Old 30.09.2004, 08:47   #35
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Fleur, where do these facts come from? You just quote a Greek Cypriot Minister During the Beslan horror one high-ranked official announced there was a black person among the terrorists - who later turned out to be white, but dirty! But it was first presented as a fact!

I am far from the idea that the islamist circles of Turkey are unrelated to Al Quaeda, I tend to think, they are closely connected and may be even collaborating, but let us be more reserved in believing what officials of parties in conflict say about each other.

Strider - your position is what Til Ulenspiegel called "the ashes of Klaas beat in my heart". We all have this feeling. And it cannot be logically explained, as it is just an emotion.
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Old 30.09.2004, 10:31   #36
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>august
Your position is one, which might be shared by many armenians. Most of us do want to see a democratic (a real democratic) turkey, which recognizes the genocide and which does not practice ethnic hatred towards us. Indeed, if turkey was to be such, then few would really care about it being an EU member or not.

However, turkey first has to change, and then enter the EU, and not enter and then change. The simple reason being (and I repeat myself): as an EU member it will have more freedom than as a candidate. I doubt, that if turkey enters today, it will change significantly in the years to come. In fact, it's more likely, that turkey will change Europe. We are seeing those changes today, and the deeper they become the less Europe becomes what it is today.
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Old 30.09.2004, 14:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by august
Fleur, where do these facts come from? You just quote a Greek Cypriot Minister
August, that's what I'm saying Greek minister was just accusing, as far as I know, without bringing facts, without prooving his case.
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Old 30.09.2004, 15:01   #38
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From Koran

Who's enemy Master?

1. Never call enemy to your right muslem brother. Enemy is out of you. Look for enemies only in communities and nations of ungodlies. Allah is the only God and I am Muhamad is the only real prophet under the sun (Iya allia Allah, al Muhamad rassl lahim). Everyone that do not accept this and do not live with the rules of Allah I used to talk about can be threated as Enemy...

Show me a word that said Christ about enemy...

2. What's Jihad. And when should right muslem know that's it's a time for Jihad Master?

Jihad is "Holy War". It's a final beatle of muslem world agains unholy and ungod people. It's a time when you'll be granted as well as many ungods you kill. Time will come from Allah. Look for signs. It's going to be the critical dirth of world.

Show me a word that said Christ about "unguilty" of murderer...

And this is not the end. Time by time I'll write here parts from Koran and we'll see where this $hit goes...
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Old 02.10.2004, 19:08   #39
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That is scary. But thanks for posting it. I've heard about there things in Koran but never had time to actually check it out myself. One of my classmates wrote a paper on Islam and democray. He thinks the two can perfectly co-exist. I wonder whow would these nice citations fit into his theory.
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Old 27.05.2005, 13:31   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by august
Is any religion compatible with democracy? Religions are paternalistic... We speak mostly of Islam, because nowdays its fervent adepts are more numerous than fervent Christians. I think it is religious fundamentalism that is uncompatible with democracy.
just because it (religious fundamentalism) threatens women or there's much more to it? btw religious fundamentalism is a powerful force in Israeli politics - is their democracy just an illusion?
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Old 27.05.2005, 16:50   #41
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Islam and Democracy , who's democracy is correct and acceptable ? why should I interfere if moslim women are not treated equel ? are they complaining ? no , Do you think western political systems are perfect ? no , Islam is a religion and dempcracy is politics , and every nation practices it to sute them ,
as far as Islam and violence goes . how soon did we forget the Cruceders and the Spanish Catholics against others ,
In Israel religous students are tought to spit every time they see a cross ,this is a daily happening and Armenian christians are targeted .they are not punished when reported , Democracy ? not in Israel unless you are a Jew ,
As far as Turkey , it has been put on the list of one of the worst nations for human rights abuses to day by Amnesty International whom I am a member of , not only against minorities but their own people if they defy their govenment , I am not against Turkey joining the EU for being moslim , I am against it for the reasons above and the Armenian and Kurdish issues have to be resolved first , the EU does not need those problems in it's back yard
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Last edited by Sevana; 27.05.2005 at 22:01.
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Old 20.06.2005, 19:36   #42
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Hello,
Islam and democracy!, there's no way to compare, Islam is a religion that is
made by Allah(God), but democracy is something related to politics that is
made by some people.

In fact, Islam does not need democracy because it have things better
than democracy, and Islam is not a religion of killing innocents.

The Qur'an, some people may read it and understand or get different
meanings which may be far from the right meanings.

Take a look at these sites to know more, you may change your mind..

http://english.islamway.com/

http://www.qurancomplex.com/default.asp?l=eng
(the Qur'an and its translations and meanings)
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Old 20.06.2005, 20:15   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA
Hello,
Islam and democracy!, there's no way to compare, Islam is a religion that is
made by Allah(God), but democracy is something related to politics that is
made by some people.

In fact, Islam does not need democracy because it have things better
than democracy, and Islam is not a religion of killing innocents.

The Qur'an, some people may read it and understand or get different
meanings which may be far from the right meanings.

Take a look at these sites to know more, you may change your mind..

http://english.islamway.com/

http://www.qurancomplex.com/default.asp?l=eng
(the Qur'an and its translations and meanings)
Your point being? (aside from advertising this *you all know what*)

"Islam is a religion that is made by Allah(God), but democracy is something related to politics that is made by some people."

This may come to you as a surprise, but Islam is made by some people just as well, and made for political reasons.

And no, it seems they are not compatible. As long as there's fundamental fanatics around, killing their daughters for dating guys.
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Old 20.06.2005, 21:25   #44
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Barew!

Well I'm not going to post any opinion about the subject as a whole, as I've already stated it.

What I want to say is that I deeply regret that someone gave a negative reputation to AKA (and this was his first post, so I'm not mistaken) for expressing politely his(her) opinion. This is not democratic at all!

Lav egheq!
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Old 21.06.2005, 06:14   #45
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Let's agree to disagree
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