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Old 24.09.2004, 07:09   #1
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Default Islam and Democracy

are those two compatible?
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:16   #2
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no...
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:20   #3
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When reporter asked Chuk D (from Public Enemy)
R:- Why do you always sing about racism? Is there any racism over USA?
Ch:- The fact that you're asking is already proves that ...


So that's the proof of my answer "no"...
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:29   #4
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Is any religion compatible with democracy? Religions are paternalistic... We speak mostly of Islam, because nowdays its fervent adepts are more numerous than fervent Christians. I think it is religious fundamentalism that is uncompatible with democracy.
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:35   #5
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august, thanks, you have got a point there

VaheX, one can't tell. Turkey may join EU before you know it
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:47   #6
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in christianity nothing said about war, nothing said about aftermath, about killing

in koran it said. there is a idea of holly war. there is a idea of final beatle. in other words in christianity there is no place you can dig in, in islam there are planty of places to dig in and still to be innocent.

i remember of caurse the Inquisition times or times of christian wars for freeing Lord's tomb. There is no place in bible that said they where right.

Islamic people say sometimes that islam do not allow to do thigs terrorists fundamentalists do.

Bring me a Koran and i'll show places that allow person to kill, to boss on other, to overwill on others will...
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Old 24.09.2004, 07:51   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsilocybeLarvae
august, thanks, you have got a point there

VaheX, one can't tell. Turkey may join EU before you know it
Turkey will not join EU while problem of islam is still on front page. Europeans are stupid but not that kind.
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Old 24.09.2004, 08:03   #8
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EU satisfied with Turkish reforms


The European Union enlargement chief has voiced satisfaction with Turkey's reforms as Ankara presses for formal negotiations on its EU membership bid.
Enlargement Commissioner Guenter Verheugen said there were "no more obstacles" for Turkey on its path towards opening accession talks. Turkey's prime minister confirmed a new penal code did not include a controversial clause banning adultery.

Ankara's delay in adopting the code had earlier troubled EU officials.

But the Turkish parliament has now decided to reconvene on Sunday to discuss it.

Mr Verheugen told reporters after his meeting with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that "we have been able to find solutions for the remaining outstanding problems".

"From my point of view there are no further conditions which Turkey must fulfil in order to allow the commission to make a recommendation," he said.

Mr Erdogan said there was now no reason not to get a positive response from the EU, adding that Turkey had "worked very hard" to fulfil the criteria.

"No item which is not already included in the draft of the Turkish criminal code will be included and I mean by that the issue of adultery," he said.

But he added that while he and his government were bound by what was in the code he could not speak for future governments.

A report by the commission due on 6 October will say whether Brussels believes talks on the Turkish bid should go ahead.
...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3682172.stm
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Old 24.09.2004, 08:06   #9
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Ready carefully what i wrote.

...while islam problem is on frontpages...

I'm sure of that.
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Old 24.09.2004, 08:21   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaheX
Ready carefully what i wrote.

...while islam problem is on frontpages...

I'm sure of that.
May be your are right... can't say for sure... of course they (EU) can every now and then postpone the negotiations on Turkey's EU membership bid...
but there's no garanties that islam problem will soon (if ever) be solved... so how long and what reasons EU can put forward to explain the delay in negotiations...?
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Old 24.09.2004, 08:39   #11
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You know what's interesting?

In Turkey I used to talk (over cognac) with some politician.
He was sure of what I'm saying too.
Quote mr. Sahid Gerhan

-You know day by day we're getting closer to EU, but anyway we know that Islam is problem for all Europe. They find out different reasons to deny us, but we know that every educated turk knows that it's all about Islam.
And do you see what we play? We show world not our islamic face. Look over turkish cities. Look to our mosques. They are hidden back of the big walls. Look to our people. They want to dress like europeans, work like europeans(in Turkey people work as for example in Armenia, week days are Saturday and Sunday), talk and eat like europeans.
We do not want to be off on fridays. Do you see where it's going to?
But anyway we are muslims and Europeans know that.
We deny by ourselfs our specifications, but world knows, europe knows that it's just a game.

They already have bad expirience.
Remember 70's. Look to German. Over 10 millions of Turks are living there. But they where just one million. Look to GB, look to France. Look time by time media says that in this or that European country killed one or another Nazist party leader.
They are still few. But they are getting more and more. And Europe afraid of us, because (he said something that i can wrote here only in armenian or turkish, so sorry "vaxecir marmand getic")

and what do you think about this. Europe is stupid, but not so stupid...
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Old 24.09.2004, 09:43   #12
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hope so
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Old 24.09.2004, 12:39   #13
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I agree that no modern religion is compatible with democracy. Being an atheist I strongly believe, that any modern religion (particularly monotheistic religions) is created to serve the needs of some people. If we look back, the Romans found use in christianity, because it helped them control their people and keep them in tyrany. For that cause the religion must be flexible and alow various interpretations of it. Islam being more modern than christianity serves hat cause better, therefore allowing muslim clerics both to radicalize the religion and for 'modern and progressive' muslims to portray it as a compasionate one. I don't know much about islam to judje about the so popular 'pure islam' but my personal belief is, that islam will never change itself to fit the needs of democracy and open society.

I think the polytheistic religions of the ancient world were much more suited for democracy. After all, those did not put any restrictions apon peoples lives, as long as the latter did not fail to bring their sacrifices on time

By the way, this is all my personal opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone or his beliefs.
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Old 24.09.2004, 14:17   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsilocybeLarvae
are those two compatible?
Why should they be compatible?

The people in each nation should have the right of choosing their own religion (or no religion at all) and their political system!

Why the hell we - the so called western people - should try to impose democracy to nations where the majority of the people don't want it?

After all, Winston Churchill said (more or less, I can't quote the exact words, just the idea) that "Democracy is the worst regimen to live in... if we discount all the others tried before and afterwards!".

Live and let live!
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Old 24.09.2004, 14:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaheX
Turkey will not join EU while problem of islam is still on front page. Europeans are stupid but not that kind.
I don't really know who are the stupid ones! Because if and when Turkey or any other country "join" EU, it will mean that they will be literally invaded by the big european economic sharks, doing all their predators' jobs. I don't know yet what they will do the day they have nothing more to **** from the countries other than the original six (may be the oldest nine) ones...

At the beginning they give you some candies, but later on they want all your food!

Lav egheq!
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