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Old 19.11.2004, 21:10   #1
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Exclamation The European Union

Barew!

I've seen a lot of references to the subject in several threads within this section of my beloved Forum. And most part of them showing a more or less favourable opinion about it.

I've hesitated during some time about the idea of posting what I'm going to post.

But finally decided to doing it. Any time I refer a country, please take it as a reference to its leaders (political and economic) and not to its people in general.

Before my country asked for entering the then European Communities I was in favour of it as it was showing to be a way for defending a then very young democracy (we were getting out of 48 years of a fascist regimen), and their economic help would be (as I was seeing it at that time) a good way for bypassing some crisis of terrible budget deficits.

Now we are full members of the UE and I wish we never were! And you know why?
Because of two simple reasons:

1.- Germany never achieved overwhelming the european countries by force. They started doing it by economics.

2.- Spain never achieved overwhelming Portugal by force. They already did it by economics.

As a matter of fact we never entered Europe. The big european sharks invaded my country, taking advantage from lower salaries!

Now with the so called European Constitution, we are going to loose a lot of our sovereignty, namely in the sea. So I'm going to answer "NO" in a referendum that is going to be held, after the government having signed the document.

So please be aware! Just replace (in my above text) Portugal by Armenia and Spain by Turkey, and you'll see the picture!

Think about it and... Lav egheq!
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Old 25.11.2004, 19:52   #2
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I was curious what would happen if I replaced Poland by Armenia - sex drugs and rock roll ... and tones of wodka for the chill out ... groovy isn't it?
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Old 27.11.2004, 00:29   #3
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Turkey in the EU? Makes me think indeed. I think it is very important to have an open and extensive discussion of this issue. People just seem to take it for granted that it is good to be part of the EU. Prosperity and peace - that's what we associate with the EU.
Btw - I am currently doing some research on EU - what a mess! It is not an organization, it is a monster! It took me a month to figure out the basic decision making structure. How do you people live with it? How about democratic transperency and acountability? Democratic deficit indeed
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Old 22.12.2004, 03:23   #4
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Red Stone , excuse me for being a bit ignorent but where is your country ? you have (helpers World )for location , last time I looked at my geography map I did not see such a country . keep up the good comments Red Stone.
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Old 22.12.2004, 20:07   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevana
Red Stone , excuse me for being a bit ignorent but where is your country ? you have (helpers World )for location , last time I looked at my geography map I did not see such a country . keep up the good comments Red Stone.
Hi Sevana!

First of all I must state that what I'm going to write has no connection with any religion, whatsoever.

Helpers World is much more than a country, because - as the name implies - it's a world. That's where live people who love helping people... and love getting helped when needed...

Physically, I live in Portugal, the most western country of Europe. We look at the same North Atlantic as Canadians do from the other side. So, if you go to the eastern coast, just look at the sea, a little bit to your right, and may be we're lucky and our eyes meet...

Merry Xmas!
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Old 22.12.2004, 21:27   #6
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Red Stone, but don't you think that EU membership has imporved the economy of your country? I mean of course there are disadvantages because you have to compromise but in the long run doesn't it pay back?
As to Armenia, I believe it's too early to think about EU membership because before we get involved in the EU program of Extended Europe we have to find a solution to a number of problems, which are still unsloved.
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Old 22.12.2004, 21:38   #7
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It will be my pleasure to meet you at the Atlantic Red Stone , may be by now you realize that I am an avtivist and thrive to see world peace and prosperity for all , as a health care worker , my missions have taken me to many parts of the third world and developing countries , encluding Armenia . I want this Christmas to be a special one for the children of Iraq. I agree with that belonging to EU is not all it promissed to be.
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Old 22.12.2004, 22:39   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorothy
Red Stone, but don't you think that EU membership has imporved the economy of your country? I mean of course there are disadvantages because you have to compromise but in the long run doesn't it pay back?
As to Armenia, I believe it's too early to think about EU membership because before we get involved in the EU program of Extended Europe we have to find a solution to a number of problems, which are still unsloved.
Dorothy, let me clarify a couple of things that - I agree - aren't clear enough in my first post.

Knowing what I know now, I'm in favour of some kind of a Federation of all Europe, from Lisbon to the Urals. But, the powers of the Central Government should be strictly confined to the Defense, Foreign Affairs, and referees of unsolved problems between member countries, if they so ask. Everything else should be the exclusive responsibility of each country. Strangely enough EU has no common foreign nor defense politics. The Iraq's invasion is the proof!

You speak about economy, I speak about what I can call the average buying power of people. When we adhered, it was 50% of Europe's average. Ten years (good years in economic terms, and not having to contribute to european funds) later it was 50.8%. In Spain (they adhered at the same time) the corresponding figures were 52 and 60%. Funnily this is simultaneous to the boom of "economic exhanges" between Spain and Portugal: they were one of our last commercial "partners" before and now they are the number 1 unquestionnably. I don't know the present figures, but I'm sure that they have degraded in Portugal. It's something we feel as soon as we take a look to our walet.

Unfortunately these days economy means exclusively the capital interests. All the laws are made to protect them. And big countries achieve some welfare of their own people at the expenses of people from the called third world and some less developed neighbours, exploiting their raw materials and lower (sometimes ridiculous) salaries. Of course the biggest part of those dirty profits don't go to their own people but to the pockets of the big economic sharks. Simply they must disburse some for making people think that the system is very nice and fair! And then from time to time, one or other of the Governments of those big countries come to announce with a big noise that they are launching a program for helping a certain country. They "forget" to say that they are helping a country that doesn't need help: it only need not to be stolen nor exploited by the big ones!

I'm saying all this because it applies to some extent to Portugal and all small countries in Europe.

Ok! OK! It's Christmas! I'll stop rambling!

Merry Christmas!
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Old 22.12.2004, 22:44   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevana
It will be my pleasure to meet you at the Atlantic Red Stone , may be by now you realize that I am an avtivist and thrive to see world peace and prosperity for all , as a health care worker , my missions have taken me to many parts of the third world and developing countries , encluding Armenia . I want this Christmas to be a special one for the children of Iraq. I agree with that belonging to EU is not all it promissed to be.
So... you are located at Helpers World too... It's a pleasure to feeling you!
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Old 22.12.2004, 22:55   #10
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Red Stone, I see your point. There can never be equality within any system that consists of major and minor parts even if they are all integral parts of a whole - it's the same with EU and it was the same with the USSR - all the Soviet countries used to work for one single center - Moscow. Sad but true. On the other hand, I think that it's very hard for a small country with national economy that is far from perfect to exist separately and independently - although this is something we all would like to achieve.
Anyway, it's Christmas time (for you, our Christmas is on January 6) and I would like to wish you happiness and joy! I hope the coming year will bring us peace and a lot more confidence in future - we all deserve a good future regardless of the geographical location!
Merry Christmas!
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Old 23.12.2004, 17:15   #11
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Talking My Best Wishes for the Christmas to You and Your Families! :)

Hi, Guys!

'04 has encouraged me to change the focus of my life and slow down the pace of life in my own family because I realized that I continuously was having trouble with a calendar that was way too full and a family that was way too stressed out. I understand that the society we live in is always on the move, and I was always thinking there's evidently something there worth knowing, though it may turn out different from what I expected in the first place.

Now that I understand that simplest things are more important, I am going to teach my kids how to live in quiet, peaceful moments, read books in bed, be on time for family dinner and the other simple pleasures that are part of our lives and for which we always have very little room. I must admit this leap-year was a successful one for me. I met my this year, it's been the most unbidden and dearest moment in my life. We are going to have our betrothal on Jan 1 2005. (Yaaaaayyyyyy! )

Our Aghajanyan & Yatzenko Co., the start-up we are going to launch on Jan the 1st has already developed its strategic initiatives for the new year. My goals for the year are mainly to be home every night at 7:30/8:00 for family dinner, have a weekly date with wine and candles followed by watching movies together and mandatorily cuddling under a blanket; thanks God I have the option to go clubbing once a month, and the very last assignment I have is the yearly honeymoon. My results intuitively are 50% timely dinner attendance and 42/52 weeks include date nights due to occasional changes in the release schedule; and one honeymoon - Black Sea cruise and a weekend on Jan 5 and 6th in Tsakhkadzor - courtesy of my company. Goga should repeat her goals for the year: go to work, play with RedHat more often, learn the rules of football, try chineese soup made of algae, plan a couple of family trips (dates and honeymoon inclusively). I am sure her results will be much more astonishing than my ones: she'll develop interest to Linux very fast, and will barf the chinese soup. As to football rules, it'll be my final fiasco in '05 because she'll quickly develop a new desire for Vikings football and I will have to find a team of enthusiasts for her in Armenia, which is in fact impossible. Even with this success behind us, we noiselessly work to increase our family budget in the first quarter next year. That's all I have and thanks for reading

My best wishes for the Christmas to You and Your families and a fuller satisfaction with the time you have together.
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Old 23.12.2004, 17:37   #12
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Well, I think welfare of the people also depend on economic capacity of a particular member-state. As far as I know the Netherlands is also a small country, but it seems it has benefited from EU membership. Ireland which was not a very rich country before EU membership is much better now. That's what many Irish and Dutch people told me. May be I met wrong people?

May be the problem is your government and its economic policy? I think EU takes a part of sovereignty from national governments, but leave them enough power for supporting their businesses. Or not?
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Old 24.12.2004, 09:29   #13
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Hrach, my congatulations on your betrothal and your wonderful vision for 2005, combined with the New Year resolution I do think you meant to write that the integrtaion with European Union is nothing as compared to your personal achievments

Merry Christams and Happy New Year to you, too
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Old 24.12.2004, 10:10   #14
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Thank you very much, August! You are very kind to remember me. I wish you a wonderful Christmas and a prosperous New Year! J And my warm greetings on Dorothy too!


As far as the EU thread is concerned, for some time the thread has been concentrating only on EU and then abruptly on best wishes for the Xmas. There is definitely much more to it! I just did not want to start a leak in this conversation, because I had no adverse comments on economic capabilities of our country and did not want to make it a sad story of my good talent going astray. Moreover, I have misgivings that neither Irish Tiger nor Dutch attempt to tourism as social, civil and economic phenomena are feasible in Armenia. Those who gave thorough read to Nile Ferguson’s ‘’The Cash Nexus: Money and Power in the Modern World 1700-2000’’ will understand what I mean.


Thank you very much again, August! And I immensely hope to meet you in person one day!

Cheers!
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Old 24.12.2004, 10:15   #15
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Hrach, all things come to him that waits
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