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Old 24.11.2004, 14:43   #1
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Lightbulb Indian/Armenian English & a Spell Check Fiasco

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/881925.cms

see the mistake in the article's heading ...

it's just to roll out a dsicussion on whether indian english is that good since in these times most vendors in IT, telecommunication services etc. beleive to have round hills with initiating a business in Delhi, Noida, Bangalore or wherever rather than having the same business established in Armenia, Russia or in any other CIS country ... Their first argument is of course english ...

What do you think? Is that our universities and the British council are not able to bring us to the competitive level with India or it's just that our infrastrcutures in general will always be too fragile and not attractive for 800-hundred pound Gorilla companies ...

What's your opinion?
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http://texneg.livejournal.com
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Old 24.11.2004, 15:31   #2
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Hi Hrach_Techie!

Unfortunately the link doesn't match what you're talking about... it concerns Pakistan and USA...

But I do have an opinion about what you say.
For me everything is very simple: find a place where salaries are low(er), and there they go the vampires!

Cheers!
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Old 24.11.2004, 16:26   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Stone
Hi Hrach_Techie!

Unfortunately the link doesn't match what you're talking about... it concerns Pakistan and USA...

But I do have an opinion about what you say.
For me everything is very simple: find a place where salaries are low(er), and there they go the vampires!

Cheers!
---------
Hi, Red Stone!

I must have blent all substances together and this was a bit confusing in the first place ... But now when I re-read the article I understand that PISCES stands for Personal Identification Secure Comparison Evaluation System ... Well I was then barking up the wrong tree..

As to vampires, I think it's more to do with conventional and oversimplified western stereotypes which are mostly based on forbes/fitch reputation/ranks assigned to coutries besides those lower salaries that motivate Westerners to invest in countries like Armenia and Russia. I have a gut feeling that these two countries have always been treated just like two peas in a pod when investors want to cut on costs at home. I agree, in India they speak english still a very strange english but native speakers get accustomed to their pronounciation and ethnical specifics despite everything else after a while ...Our english seems not to be entitled for any tolerable dose in this regard?

The strangest thing is though that salaries in India do not differ that much from US salaries (in hi-tech approx. 1/3 times less than in US) - why Intel and IBM still go investing in India then? Apparently, the education system is much better than in Armenia.

What's your opnion?
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Old 24.11.2004, 19:34   #4
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Believe me, Hrach_Techie! The language skills of natives is just an excuse for not investing in this or that country!

Besides in the IT field the most important is writing, not speaking. And for obtaining a fair number of individuals writing decently in a foreign language is so difficult (easy) in India as in Armenia, in Chile as in Zaire. Things are rather different when speaking is concerned: it depends a lot on the characteristics of the mother language of the individual, as well as his(her) music hearing qualities.

Not knowing the education systems in Armenia nor in India, I can't have an opinion of the relative levels.

What makes me mad is that they use this excuse when most part of americans don't speak nor write a good clean english. It's not their own fault but that's the way it is.

My friend! They invest in a country if they see that within a very very short period of time they can collect much more than they have put there. Otherwise they don't start, or (when they have guessed the wrong figures) close the shop, sending more x people to unemployment. I've seen too many examples of it in my own country! Of course for other activities, the excuse is different...

Unfortunately we live in a jungle much more dangerous than the jungle where I've been in Africa!

Cheers!
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Old 25.11.2004, 10:56   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Stone
Believe me, Hrach_Techie! The language skills of natives is just an excuse for not investing in this or that country!

Besides in the IT field the most important is writing, not speaking. And for obtaining a fair number of individuals writing decently in a foreign language is so difficult (easy) in India as in Armenia, in Chile as in Zaire. Things are rather different when speaking is concerned: it depends a lot on the characteristics of the mother language of the individual, as well as his(her) music hearing qualities.

Not knowing the education systems in Armenia nor in India, I can't have an opinion of the relative levels.

What makes me mad is that they use this excuse when most part of americans don't speak nor write a good clean english. It's not their own fault but that's the way it is.

My friend! They invest in a country if they see that within a very very short period of time they can collect much more than they have put there. Otherwise they don't start, or (when they have guessed the wrong figures) close the shop, sending more x people to unemployment. I've seen too many examples of it in my own country! Of course for other activities, the excuse is different...

Unfortunately we live in a jungle much more dangerous than the jungle where I've been in Africa!

Cheers!
-------------------------
Hi, Red Stone!

It's definitely painful and hard when people lose thier jobs to someone in a third world country - a country that has been a failed state longer than the US/EU has existed. However, companies still offshore work because they can make more bucks by offshoring work and no one can save us from the possible risk that we in Armenia like people in Spain/Oklahoma at some point in the futute have the same bad luck to lose our jobs to another third world denizens with no matter how much education they have.

Our leaders might want to start put it to use improving the cesspool that we call a country, not by trade and treason, but the same way they built up America and Europe 100s of years ago; otherwise one day we lost they won the game is over and it ****s to be us and take my word for it not that they for one would ever miss us or conceive in their minds that we've given 'em all of our wealth, ideas and sophisticated patents for money having less value than for turning up the soil again ...

Should not we get rid of this royal heirs lingering around and think about the future, that was the point I sought after in this post. And definitely it's not treason selling out people for another so they can make a profit - it's business and the economics does not work at least for Armenia that has tech-savvy society and where everything is hell of a lot cheaper ... Just regret that Armenia cannot support itself and sems that Idia and China with their billions of residents are good at producing just because there's way too many chineese and indians. However, there's alos the posisitve karma of it all - thier dollars are going to a benign democracy that could really use some bucks to feed its billions.

Thanks for the reply ...
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Old 26.11.2004, 19:36   #6
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Hrach now that you know what PISCES stands for let me tell you my experience regarding this topic .
I was on line with my server's technical advisor , as we were talking I asked him what was the weather like in Montreal ? to my surprise he said ,how would I know ? I am in India . Then I went on to discover from other sources that those employees are flown to North America and enrolled in a special English language program to help them lose their accents and given English names then sent back to India ,
I asked around regarding why countries such as Armenia are not considered , here is what I was told , Countries such as Armenia and former Soviet countries have corrupt govenments ,are unstable politicly as we can see what is going on in the Ukraine , and English still is not as popular as Russion . and yes they are paid much lower than what a Canadian would recieve ,
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Old 27.11.2004, 00:39   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevana
Countries such as Armenia and former Soviet countries have corrupt govenments ,are unstable politicly as we can see what is going on in the Ukraine , and English still is not as popular as Russion
Sad but true. Corruption is there, political instability may also look like a serious problem for those Westerners "spoiled" by good life (no ofence) and Russian is popular (although it does not mean that our English is bad). And after all - why should they bother looking for new places, spending time and money to get a foothold in a previously unknown country like Armenia, if they have India?
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Old 27.11.2004, 13:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevana
Hrach now that you know what PISCES stands for let me tell you my experience regarding this topic .
I was on line with my server's technical advisor , as we were talking I asked him what was the weather like in Montreal ? to my surprise he said ,how would I know ? I am in India . Then I went on to discover from other sources that those employees are flown to North America and enrolled in a special English language program to help them lose their accents and given English names then sent back to India ,
I asked around regarding why countries such as Armenia are not considered , here is what I was told , Countries such as Armenia and former Soviet countries have corrupt govenments ,are unstable politicly as we can see what is going on in the Ukraine , and English still is not as popular as Russion . and yes they are paid much lower than what a Canadian would recieve ,
------------
well ... I'd never take their words for true, because India has an economy the same corrupt economy - the difference is that it's controlled to some extent ... And neither China nor India could support themselves without US investments ... that's what I think in this regard ....
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Old 27.11.2004, 13:12   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider
Sad but true. Corruption is there, political instability may also look like a serious problem for those Westerners "spoiled" by good life (no ofence) and Russian is popular (although it does not mean that our English is bad). And after all - why should they bother looking for new places, spending time and money to get a foothold in a previously unknown country like Armenia, if they have India?
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Strider! they have billions of residents in there - that's the reason for so much tension in their air ...
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Old 27.11.2004, 22:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrach_Techie
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Strider! they have billions of residents in there - that's the reason for so much tension in their air ...
You mean - residents in India? (sorry, end of the week - my mind slows down to a level of an idiot )
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