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Old 26.05.2002, 05:57   #31
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Originally posted by Gates:

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Mojesh' mne nazvat' neskol'ko korparativnix messangerov?
NU, naprimer Microsoft NetMeeting.

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SST-i imeet svoj sector rinka, to chto u nego malo global'nix pol'zavatelej, eto nikak ne vliyaet na ego prodavaemost', eto daje vkakoj to mere plus.
Ne sovsem ponyal smysl frazy. Prodaetsya li etot SST, ili net? Esli da, to kto ego pokupaet?
O kakom rynke idet rech'? Ob armyanskom?

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I ti nezabivaej chto eto programma pishetsya v Armeenii i nesravnimo deshevle chem zapadnie analogi.
Podavlyayushuyu chast' stoimosti podobnogo klassa programm sostavlyaet ne razrabotka, a support. Kotorogo, kak ya ponimayu ne bylo, net, i ne predviditsya. Tak?

Udachi,
Hovik
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Old 26.05.2002, 14:18   #32
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Tumanyan, Vy opyat' osedlali svoj lyubimyj konek: neobosnovannye predpolozhenija.

1. SST razrabotan 4 goda nazad i kakim by on ni byl, uzhe 4 goda PRODAETSYA na amerikanskom korporativnom rynke...

2. Kompaniya proizvodyashaya SST - AMERIKANSKAYA, s filialom v Armenii. V Armenii naxodyatsya tol'ko programmisty, kotorye vypolnyayut ukazaniya rukovodstva naxodyashegosya v Boston, MA...
Xozyain firmy - amerikanec armyanskogo proisxozhdeniya, na amerikanskom softwernom rynke uzhe let 15.

3.Ya znayu po kraynej mere 3 softwernye kompanii v Armenii, kotorye rabotayut na urovne samyx vysokix mirovyx standartov, proizvodyat konkurentosposobnuyu produkciyu. Sredi klientov etix kompanij: Sylink, AMD, UNESCO, Europarlament, to name a few... Rebyata iz tech support etix kompanij provodyat 6-8 mesyacev v god v razyezdax po vsemu miru, ustanavlivaya i soprovozhdaya svoyu produkciyu...

Teper' obyasnite mne, plz prostuyu vesch. Pochemu Vy, a priori vstrechayete v shtyki vsyo, chto kasayetsya sozidatel'nogo truda v Armenii???

Neuzheli tak trudno NE yazvit', i pered tem kak prezritel'no otmaxnut'sya, xotya by pointeresovat'sya chto k chemu???
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Old 26.05.2002, 15:14   #33
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Originally posted by groul:
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Tumanyan, Vy opyat' osedlali svoj lyubimyj konek: neobosnovannye predpolozhenija.
Ne viju v etom nichego ploxogo. Ya je ne delayu neobosnovannyx utverjdenij. Ya, vsego lish', predpolagayu. Esli moi predpolojeniya neverny - razubedite menya.

Quote:

1. SST razrabotan 4 goda nazad i kakim by on ni byl, uzhe 4 goda PRODAETSYA na amerikanskom korporativnom rynke...

Chto oznachaet Amerikanskij korporativnyj rynok v vashej interpretacii? I, esli mojno, pokonkretnee, pojalujsta, s primerami firm i ix otzyvami.

Quote:

2. Kompaniya proizvodyashaya SST - AMERIKANSKAYA, s filialom v Armenii.

Eto ni o chem ne govorit.

Quote:

V Armenii naxodyatsya tol'ko programmisty, kotorye vypolnyayut ukazaniya rukovodstva naxodyashegosya v Boston, MA...

Eto uje namnogo lushshe. Uspokaivaet kak-to.

Quote:

Xozyain firmy - amerikanec armyanskogo proisxozhdeniya, na amerikanskom softwernom rynke uzhe let 15.

Opyat'-taki ni o chem ne govorit. Vremya naxojdeniya na rynke - ne pokazatel'. Pokazateli -reputaciya firmy, zarabotannye summy, ob'em prodaj, i.t.d.

Quote:

3.Ya znayu po kraynej mere 3 softwernye kompanii v Armenii, kotorye rabotayut na urovne samyx vysokix mirovyx standartov

Standartov chego? Vot tut, pojalujsta popodrobnee... Imeete li vy vvidu, "vyskoix texnichesko/texnologicheskix standartov", ili chto-libo drugoe?

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Rebyata iz tech support etix kompanij provodyat 6-8 mesyacev v god v razyezdax po vsemu miru, ustanavlivaya i soprovozhdaya svoyu produkciyu...

Eto ne ob HPLA li govoritsya? Esli da - dumayu, eta kompaniya ne mojet slujit' argumentom v nashem spore.

Quote:

Teper' obyasnite mne, plz prostuyu vesch. Pochemu Vy, a priori vstrechayete v shtyki vsyo, chto kasayetsya sozidatel'nogo truda v Armenii???


Uvajaemyj opponent, esli by vy potrudilis' tshatel'nee oznakomit'sya s moej poziciej po voprosam, vyskazannym v dannom topike, i, tem bolee, proanalizirovat' ix, vy by zametili, chto ya ne vstrechayu v shtyki vse armyanskoe, otnyud'!!!
Vot spisok postulatov, vyskazannyx mnoyu v etom topike:

1. V Armenii ne sushestvuet razvitoj infrastruktury podderjki programm. Edinstvennaya firma, u kotoroj eta infrastruktura est': HPLA (kstati, moya alma mater).

2. Podavlyayushee bol'shinstvo programmistov (govorya "programmistov", ya, dlya prostoty, vklyuchayu v nix vsyo soobshestvo IT-specialistov) v Armenii ne imeyut predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm.... I eto menya ochen' pechalit. Ibo, esli situaciya budet ostavat'sya takoj, kak est' - armyanskaya IT industriya postepenno vymret. Ibo metody, primenyaemye v bol'shinstve firm yavlyayutsya ni chem inym kak kustarnym proizvodstvom.

3. Naxodyas' v Armenii nevozmojno proizvesti marketingovoe issledovanie rynka v celyax sozdaniya novogo produkta. Estestvenno, rech' idet ne ob armyanskom IT-rynke.Kak vy, dumayu, sami ponimaete : "Ne sushestvuet rynka IT v Armenii"

Naryadu s vyskazannymi faktami, ya priderjivayus' ubejdeniya, chto v Armenii sushestvuet dostatochno vysokoklassnyx programmistov, sposobnyx, PRI NALICHII SOOTVETSTVUYUSHIX USLOVIJ, sozdavat' produkty mirovogo klassa.
Pri etom, doljen konstatirovat' sleduyushij fakt: podobnye specialisty sushestvuyut vopreki imeyushemusya v Armenii polojeniyu.....
K sojaleniyu, vuzy, zanimayushiesya podgotovkoj programmistov, ne v sostoyanii okazat' svoim studentam v kakoj-libo mere znachitel'nuyu pomosh' v osovoenii budushej special'nosti.
Konsolidirovav poslednie 2 vyskazyvaniya, a takje informaciyu o mnogochislennyx sluchayax immigracii krutyx specov v drugie strany, lichno ya prixoju k neute****el'nomu vyvodu o tom, chto
skoro ix prosto ne budet v Armenii voobshe.

Quote:

Neuzheli tak trudno NE yazvit', i pered tem kak prezritel'no otmaxnut'sya, xotya by pointeresovat'sya chto k chemu???
Govorit' pravdu v glaza != yazvit'.
groul, skajite, pojalujsta, na chem osnovyvayutsya vashi utverjdeniya o nevernosti moix predstavlenij naschet situacii vokrug IT v Armenii. Ne dopuskaete li vy mysli o tom, chto mojet vam sleduet podkorrektirovat' svoi pozicii?
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Old 26.05.2002, 23:56   #34
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Chtobi spor bil nemojko obosnovannoy pojaluysta posmotrite syuda

http://www.secureshuttle.com/

http://www.boomerangsoftware.com/

Nu yesli Amerikanci pokupayut etu programmu znachit chto to im nravitsa v nyom. Prosto za krasivie glaza ne kupili bi. "Ya tak dumayu"

Chto kasaetsa tovo chto lyubuyu shifrovku mojno lomat. Nu konechno mojno lomat i shifrovku Inoplanetyan no vse pryotsa v to chto skolko nado tratit vremya i deneg dlya vzloma.

I voobshe ya poshutil, no menya opyat ne ponyali
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Old 27.05.2002, 00:12   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gates:
V ICQ-ui ti mojesh' soxranit' svoj Contact List? I potom otkrit' ego na drugom kompe?
ne ponyal chto ty imeesh' vvidu...., esli imeesh' vvidu v drugom kompe vnesti sobstvenniy nik ili #
to Contact List soxranyaetsya tol'ko v novoy versii ICQ 2002-a.
U menya komp isportilsya nedavno, potom snova sdelal instal ICQ 2002-a, i vnes moy # i pswd, i chto?!? Prosto kayf, vse niki moix druzey soxranilis' Ya tak obradovalsya, a to mne by prishlos' snova poisk delat' "Find friend"

Regards webmaster http://www.armenica.wizard.am
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Old 27.05.2002, 02:38   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by avaron:
Contact List soxranyaetsya tol'ko v novoy versii ICQ 2002-a.
однако это можно сделать и для более ранних версий. правда, не непосредственно через icq. для этого надо пойти на сайт aska.ru, почитать немного об их системе, там говорится об их боте с ником aska.ru, дан также его uin. так вот, просто высылаешь ему свои контакты (используя свой клинет), и они будут сохранены на их сайте. а их сайт предоставляет сервис icq через web, логинишься через их сайт (обычным браузером), и пользуйся на здоровье (тут же будут все твои контакты, которые ты выслал юзеру aska.ru). а кодга понадобиться вернуть контакты, просто снова высылаешь их аське.ру, но уже из-под веб-аськи. выходишь, логинишься на совем компе, и - о чудо! - получаешь свои контакты!
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Old 27.05.2002, 07:20   #37
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2 Tumanyan

Blizhayshuy nedelyu budu sil'no zanyat, tak chto otvetit' na Vash post ne smogu.

Sorry

Ciao
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Old 27.05.2002, 13:53   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gates:
Hetaqrqir kliner imanal dzer karciq@ http://sst.freenet.am-i masin.
U xi dzezanic mecamasnutyun@ chi ogtagorcum?
Gates vortexic karox em download anel SSTn.?
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Old 27.05.2002, 16:02   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by AfroditA:
Quote:
Originally posted by Gates:
Hetaqrqir kliner imanal dzer karciq@ http://sst.freenet.am-i masin.
U xi dzezanic mecamasnutyun@ chi ogtagorcum?
Gates vortexic karox em download anel SSTn.?
http://sst.freenet.am/
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Old 27.05.2002, 16:30   #40
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2. Podavlyayushee bol'shinstvo programmistov (govorya "programmistov", ya, dlya prostoty, vklyuchayu v nix vsyo soobshestvo IT-specialistov) v Armenii ne imeyut predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm.... I eto menya ochen' pechalit. Ibo, esli situaciya budet ostavat'sya takoj, kak est' - armyanskaya IT industriya postepenno vymret. Ibo metody, primenyaemye v bol'shinstve firm yavlyayutsya ni chem inym kak kustarnym proizvodstvom.
K BS (Boomerang Software) eto ne otnosit'sya, tak kak BS uje 15 let pishet kommerchiskie projecti zachet kotorix on i jivyot, i podavlyayushee bol'shenstvo programmerov BS imeyut "predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm"

To Groul, menq miqich achel enq, hima Erevani BS-um ka Supporti bajin, Technical writingi ev Marketingi mec mas@ arvuma Hayastanic.
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Old 28.05.2002, 00:42   #41
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2 Gates

Uremn Burunsudyanin barevir, ete hishi indz.
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Old 28.05.2002, 00:44   #42
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Quote:
K BS (Boomerang Software) eto ne otnosit'sya, tak kak BS uje 15 let pishet kommerchiskie projecti zachet kotorix on i jivyot, i podavlyayushee bol'shenstvo programmerov BS imeyut "predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm"
Gates, povidimomu, odin iz nas chego-to nedoponimaet.... Proyasnite dlya menya, pojalujsta, nekotorye detali:

1. Kakoj uroven' support - a obespechivaet vash support department v Erevane?
2. I kakim obrazom, marketing department, sidyashij v Erevane analiziruet rynok v Evrope ili US?
3. Yavlyaetes' li vy sotrudnikom buxgalterii BS? Esli net, na kakom osnovanii vy delaete vyvody o finansirovanii vashej organizacii? Neujeli, xozyain, ili sotrudniki buxgalterii dokladyvayut vam lichno?
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Old 28.05.2002, 03:48   #43
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2 Gates

Otprav' Tumanyanu bankovskij schet Tigrana, a to on ne uspokoitsya. ved' on UZHE RESHIL, chto v Armenii est' tol'ko odna firma - i to ta, v kotoroj on nachinal. Xotya do etogo utverzhdal chto takix firm v Armenii voobshe net.

A klienty Boomeranga tipa Compaq ili AOL dlya nego nichego ne znachat.
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Old 28.05.2002, 06:44   #44
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2 Groul:
Interesno, kak-to poluchaetsya...
S odnoj storony, vy, uvajaemyj, kidaetes' obvineniyami, s drugoj - otkazyvaetes' otvechat' za svoi sobstvennye slova, skryvayas' za maskoj zanyatosti.
S tret'ej - vsetaki, naxodite vremya dlya nizkointellektual'nyx (izvinite, no nichego inogo po etomu povodu skazat' nel'zya) zayavlenij v "shutlivom" tone.
Analiziruya perepisku s vami (v dannom topike), ya prixoju k edinstvennomu vyvodu: "Vy, groul, nesereznyj chelovek (myagko govorya), ne nesushij nikakoj otvetstvennosti za svoi slova". Pechal'no eto osozavat', ya byl o vas bolee vysokogo mneniya....

Tem ne menee, jelayu vsyacheskix uspexov,
Hovik
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Old 28.05.2002, 09:33   #45
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ya srazhen, Tumanyan jan, but I'll survive for sure
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