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Old 26.03.2002, 01:33   #1
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Post Sluzhit' ili ne sluzhit' v Armii ?

Xelo piply,
interesno uznat' vashe mnenie po povodu nashei armii, pravil'no li ustroena nyneshnjaja sistema voinskoi sluzhby, chto by vy izmenlil v nei, kakim by vy xoteli ee videt'. Ja lichno schitau chto objazan sluzhit' kazhdyi, no esli po kakim-to prichinam xochet uklonitsja ot sluzhby (ne imeu vvidu fizicheskie problemy, skoree vsego moral'nye), to dolzhen platit' kakuu-to summu gosudarstvu, chtoby mozhno bylo nanjat' kogo-to drugogo na ego mesto. Skazhem eto budet "poluprofessional'naja armija".

I eshe malen'kij opros naselenija po teme segodnjashnei sistemy.
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Old 26.03.2002, 03:35   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by acid:
Ja lichno schitau chto objazan sluzhit' kazhdyi, no esli po kakim-to prichinam xochet uklonitsja ot sluzhby (ne imeu vvidu fizicheskie problemy, skoree vsego moral'nye), to dolzhen platit' kakuu-to summu gosudarstvu, chtoby mozhno bylo nanjat' kogo-to drugogo na ego mesto.
voobshe-to tak i est' :] esli ne xochesh sluzhit' platish i ne sluzhish :]
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Old 26.03.2002, 04:01   #3
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Ludi prestavti situaciu:
Programist okonchil instut, on uje sostoyavshisya programist...i vdrug babax..idet v armiu..i predpolojim, k sojaleniu ne zanimaetsa tam koputerami....vse eto uje propavhsi specialist.
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Old 26.03.2002, 04:52   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by VX:
Ludi prestavti situaciu:
Programist okonchil instut, on uje sostoyavshisya programist...i vdrug babax..idet v armiu..i predpolojim, k sojaleniu ne zanimaetsa tam koputerami....vse eto uje propavhsi specialist.
И я после института служил в армии и что с того?!Если каждый будет себя считать незаменимым и состоявшимся специалистом,то кто в армии тогда будет служить?!

По поводу нашей системы в армии,я считаю не нужно изобретать заново велосипед,а нужно перенимать опыт успешных и эффективных систем армий других стран,например Израильской армии.
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Old 26.03.2002, 16:46   #5
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Poprobuju poschitat' koe-kakie pljusy i minusy na sobstvennom opyte:

+
1. Posle armii ty raz i navsegda ot ne izbavljaesh'sja.
2. Kak eto ne banal'no zvuchit, no armija dejsvitel'no - luchshaja shkola zhizni (po krajnej mere dlja), poskol'ku zhizn' poznaetsya v sravnenii, a stol'ko ploxogo kak v armii, ty bol'she nigde ne uvidish'.

-
1.Zhutkoe psixologicheskoe sostojanie v techenii 2-x let. Ploxo... potom snitsya...
2. Kak ni staraesh'sja no suxim iz vody ne vujdesh' - sovest' budet obyazatel'no za chto-nit' muchat'.
3. Tuxnesh' 2 goda, xotya ja sam byl v armii na kompjutere i professional'no dazhe razvilsja a ne naoborot.

No vse-taki na moj vzgljad tuda pojti i poterpet'.
Potom v osnovnom budesh' vspominat' tol'ko xoroshee
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Old 26.03.2002, 16:51   #6
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Unhappy

Люди я в этом году заааакааааааанчиваю ... НЕ ХОЧУ ТУДААА но надеюсь на магистратуру ... если не получится я через 2 года все вам раскажу
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Old 27.03.2002, 00:23   #7
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Davajte vzglyanem na problemu s takoj storony:
Nyjna li armiya srednestatisticheskomu armyaniyu 20-25 let jivushemu v Yerevane (naprimer).
Imeetsya vvidu, zainteresovan li etot individuum v slujbe v armii? Sootvetstvuet li eta slujba ego interesam?
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Old 27.03.2002, 00:31   #8
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Ya scitayu chto slujit' obyazatel'no nujno, i daje polezno.
Ne tak strashen chert, kak ego maluyut )
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Old 27.03.2002, 00:40   #9
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2 RETAL:
Popodrobnee pojalujsta, argumentirujte, esli ne trudno. Chestno govorya, mne ne sovsem ponyatno, na chem osnovyvaetsya vasha tochka zreniya...
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Old 27.03.2002, 22:34   #10
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U menya svoya tochka zreniya po etomu voprosu....
ne xochu ee navyazivat'...

Delo v tom chto sluzhit' mozhet i nado, NO dlya KOGO...dlay zhirnix i opuxshix nachalnikov garnizonov...i ostalnix golovorezov i prestupnix elementov? Esli chelovek specialist v svoei oblasti, i mozhet pristupit' k poleznomu trudu, i plyus k etomu sobiraetsya prodolzhat' uchibu(+ platit' na nee- platnoe mesto), naprimer, to zachem gnat ego v armiyu????
Eto zhe ABSURD, kak minimum MARZM!

Davaite podoidem k voprosu chisto progmatichno, a ne tak chto, kto i gde stanovitsya nastoyaschim muzhchinoi(bez obid):

1. On teryaet kvalifikatsiyu, i vitekayuschie otsyuda posledstviya.....
2. Dva goda on ne rabotaet, t.e. on ne uchastvyet v ekonomike strani, dlya nee on UMER, a eto oochen' pagubno skazhivaetsya na ekonomike i strane v tselom.
Poyasnyu: - rabotaya on poluchaet zarplatu, potom tratit eti den'gi....t.e. oborot tovarov, uslug i opyat' deneg. Eto zhe ozhivlyaet nashu ekonomiku, i bez togo podixayuschuyu. I nakonets predpolozhim on platit nalogi. Sled. on prnosit pribil' gosudarstvu!(Ksati korotomu na nas vsex nachixat').
3. Obrazovanii chelovek prineset bolshe pribili naxodyas' ne v armii a na grazhdanke.
4,5,5.6...Ix mnogo....prodozlu pri diskusii

2 Griffon2-7
A chto kasaetsya vashego skazannogo -
"
+
1. Posle armii ty raz i navsegda ot ne izbavljaesh'sja.
"
Eto echo BOLSHOI vopros!!!! Esli novobrantsev ne budet xvatat' izdadut novii zakon, mol te kto sluzhili stali neobxodimi rodine, kak uzhe opitnie soldati, i dolzhi pomoch ei v trudnuyu minutu!(eto ne v sluchae polnoi mobilizatsii).
Chego uzh mi ne navidelis' ot nashego pravitelstva...ot nego vsego mozhno ozhidat' No ne xoroshego vo vsyakom sluchae!

2 Medved Kosolapiy
Tebe udachi...

2 RETAL
Sorry... chto vi govorish???? Kak polezno, dlya kogo polezno???? Dlya menya, dlya buduschego novobrantsa??? No gosudarstvo ne obo mne zhe dumaet kogda prizivaet menya v armiyu??? lol
V smisle ne dumaet zhe ono o tom kogda ya stanu muzhchioi...ili chto vi pod etim podrazumevaete, polezno?
Pozhaluista skazhite...mozhet vi i pravi...

2 Vikont
naschet
"
И я после института служил в армии и что с того?!Если каждый будет себя считать незаменимым и состоявшимся специалистом,то кто в армии тогда будет служить?!
"
Te kto ne yavlyayutsya imi... Ili professionali svoego voennogo dela.
Kstati esli komu to iz derevni predlozhit $100-$250 v mensyats...vse pobegut v armiyu. Pochemu bi ne izdat' zakon - pati i ne lyuzhi, kak govotit z0mbie!

2 Hovik
Budem zhdat' chto skazhet RETAL.

Escho raz povtoryus' - eto obchuzhdenie voprosa, i nichego lichnogo.

To GREAT ALL
Ksati podnemu drugoi vopros!
Nuzhna li armenii takayu bolshaya, po mashim merkam, armiya?
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Old 27.03.2002, 23:54   #11
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to Talex

Odno malen'koe zamechanie naschet togo, chto ekonomika strany mnogo teryaet ot togo, chto specialisty idut v armiju.
Te firmy, rabota v kotoryx dejstvitel'no dejstvuet na razvitie ekonomiki v etoj strane, na 90% trebujut togo, chto by postupajushij na rabotu uzhe otsluzhil v armii. Rech' idet ob armjanskix organizacijax. A takim kak HPL i t.p. po fig dannoe obstoyatel'stvo... I eto pechal'no
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Old 27.03.2002, 23:58   #12
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to Talex - 2

Nu nashe pravitel'stvo - eto konechno odin bol'shoj sjurpriz No nadejus' chto oni takogo ne vykinut, togda iz Armenii uzhe desyatkami tysjach budet uezzhat'...
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Old 28.03.2002, 00:03   #13
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dai bog k tomu vremeni nas tut uzhe ne budet....
A esli budet vse xorosho, ya ne proch ostat' sya
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Old 28.03.2002, 00:11   #14
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2 Retal

Soglasen s Tumanyanom naschet otsutstvija argumentacii...
Otricatel'nyx dovodov v pol'zu armii (takoj, kakaja ona sejchas) mozhno privesti v neskol'ko raz bol'she, chem polozhitel'nyx. Odnoj dedovshiny i neprofessional'nosti dostatochno.
Naskol'ko ja ponimaju vy v Armii sluzhili, no tam vam ponravilos'... Mozhno uznat' kogda eto bylo i v kakom zvanii?

2 Talex

Uchityvaja, chto u nas na granice pochti na 100% real'naja boevaja obstanovka - to est' neobxodimost' v takom kolichestve voennosluzhshix.
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Old 28.03.2002, 00:29   #15
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Problema armii v tom, chto s tochki zreniya armejskogo nachal'stva eto ne sila, obespechivayushaya bezopasnost' strany, a istochnik doxodov.
Ya ne pretenduyu na rol' sud'i v etom voprose.. Obrashu vashe vnimanie tol'ko na odno protivorechie:
"Zapravily armejskogo biznesa" postoyanno utverjdayut o skorom reshenii "voprosa armii".
S odnoj storony, xochetsya im verit', a s drugoj -prixodit v golovu mysl': "A zainteresovany li oni v reshenii etogo voprosa?" Otvet odnoznachen - net.
Kstati skazat', dostatochno interesno etot vopros osveshen u Gilyarovskogo ("Moskva i moskvichi"). Rekomenduyu oznakomit'sya.

2 Griffon2-7:
Pomoemu, nashi pozicii v voprosax Rodina-armiya (a oni, pomoemu, neotdelimy drug ot druga, esli rech' idet o molodyx lyudyax let 20-i v Armenii)
nashi pozicii sxodyatsya v odnom: "Rodinu lyubyat ne potomu, chto...., a vopreki"

Udachi,
Hovik
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