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Old 30.03.2002, 23:31   #1
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Post Zachem je pokupayut programmy?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tumanyan:
Esli interesno uznat': "Zachem je pokupayut programmy?" - otkroj novyj topik - rasskaju.
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Old 31.03.2002, 00:40   #2
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Est' po krajnej mere dve prichiny:

Dumayu, chto ne stoit lishnij raz povtoryat' chto napisanie programm trebuet resursov (chelovecheskix i material'nyx). Sledovatel'no, proizvoditel' jdet otdachi ot vlojennogo kapitala.
T.e. s tochki zreniya ekonomiki, programmy - takoj je tovar, kak i noski

Vtoroj, skoree vsego, bolee vajnyj faktor:
Kak pravilo, v stoimost' programm vklyuchaetsya stoimost' soprovojdeniya, kotoroe, sostoit iz sleduyushix chastej:

1. Svoevremennoe ispravlenie oshibok.
2. Razvitie produkta. T.e., kupivshij tekushuyu versiyu produkta, kosvenno sponsiruet sozdanie sleduyushej. I, kak pravilo, imeet skidki pri pokupki sleduyushej versii togo je produkta.
3. Integraciya produkta v imeyushuyusya programmno-apparatnuyu sredu.

Imenno vtorym faktorom i obyasnyaetsya sushestvovaniya open source. Posmotrite na tot je Red Hat, stoimost' supporta ot nix namnogo prevyshaet stoimost' distributiva Linux, kuplennogo u nix je...
Vot eshe primer:
Nedavno mne prishlos' blizko stolknut'sya s pokupkoj novogo servernogo hardware.
Nu tak vot, vyyasnilis' sleduyushie cifry (pros'ba obrashat' vnimanie na proporcii, a ne obsolyutnye znacheniya):

1. Cena kmpa, kuplennogo, u bezymyannogo proizvoditelya - $1000
2. Cena kompa, kuplennogo u Dell - $2000-3000 (S garantijnym obslujivaniem, no bez technical support)
3. Cena Dell s technical support - $10000.

Vot, poka, i vse. Tolkovoe obosnovanie, ili nesovsem?
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Old 31.03.2002, 03:23   #3
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2Tumanyan
Aha.
Srazu vidno kommercheskogo programmista.
Vot na moem compyutere net NI ODNOY piratskoy programmy. I kak ni stranno ni odnoy kopeyki ya ne zaplatil.

Interesno, Sir, kak eto poluchilos'?
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Old 31.03.2002, 04:13   #4
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2 Pascal:
Ty sam prekrasno znaesh'. Ty, pomoemu, popadaesh' pod kategoriyu pol'zovatelej open source. Tak?
Delo v tom, chto s tochki zreniya kommercheskogo programmirovaniya, ty ne yavlyaesh'sya tipichnym pol'zovatelem. Ty daje bolee, chem advanced user.
A obychnye user- y (v tom chisle i advanced) vynujdenny pokupat' support, kotoryj tebe (v bol'shinstve sluchaev, no ne vsegda) ne nujen.
To est', podvedya itog:
Daje za open source bol'shinstvo userov chto-to platit. Isklyuchenie sostavlyayut te, kto soglasen brat' vsyu rabotu po podderjaniyu sistemy v rabochem sostoyanii na sebya.
Kstati, est' i takoj interesnyj moment: V principe, daje v tvoem sluchae soft, v konce koncov, ne sovsem besplaten.....
Delo tut v tom, chto v processe tvoego obucheniya professii tratilis' kakie-to resursy. To est', nalico kakie-to zatraty, kotorye, v nekotorom priblijenii, mojno vklyuchit' v stoimost' ispol'zovaniya softa.
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Old 31.03.2002, 07:31   #5
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2 Pascal
Это получается очень просто -- ты пользуешся free софтом, который пишут люди, зарабатывающие на жизнь разработкой коммерческого софта (так же как Линус Торвальдс и ты сам).

Вывод: не было бы коммерческого софта -- не было бы и free софта.
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Old 31.03.2002, 17:47   #6
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Logichno
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Old 31.03.2002, 22:07   #7
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vse taki ya ne soglasen s obosnovaniyami.. vse eto mozhno poluchit' i ne pokupaya..
i primer tvoy kasaetsya hardware a ne softa..
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Old 01.04.2002, 00:31   #8
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2 z0mbie:
Situaciya s softom tochno takaya je, kak i s hardware...
Prosto vsya raznica v tom, chto v sluchae softa, kak pravilo, nevozmojno kupit' programmu bez technical supporta. (Bolee ili menee on vsegda vklyuchen).
A kak primer: posmotri stoimost' Red Hat Linux.
Komplekty postavki ne tak uj sill'no otlichayutsya drug ot druga, no cena - znachitel'no.
Pravda, est' eshe odin aspekt zarabatyvaniya deneg na open source: napisanie kakix-to svoix programmok, rasshiryayushix vozmojnosti chisto GNU-softa. V etom sluchae, berut den'gi i za trud svoix developerov.
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Old 01.04.2002, 02:49   #9
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Narod kto nibud znaet komu prinadlejit etot cracks.am

Ya tut posmotrel on vrode bi v Amerike a pochemu Armyanski domain??

Kto nibud znaet podrobnosti???
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Old 01.04.2002, 03:42   #10
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Talking

to Zombie

Vidimo v Amerike nazrevaet seryoznio Ekonomicheski krisis. To chto uje dobralis do nas i xotyat nas zastavit platit za Windows chto to oznachaet.

Navernoe u Bill Gatesa finansovie problemi. Ili navernoe reshil unitaz ozolotit .

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Old 01.04.2002, 07:50   #11
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2 Mono:
Bezotnositel'no k Amerike, Billu Gates - u, ili komu-libo/chemu-libo eshe, poproshu vas, po krajnej mere raz podumat' o tom, chto pishete v forum... Vam ne prixodilo v golovu, chto vashi posty chitaet mnojestvo lyudej, i ne vsem interesno oznakomlyatsya s nizkoposhibnoj poxabshinoj, vydavaemoj za "yumor"?
Naschet je krizisa, skaju, chto vashi svedeniya neskol'ko ustareli.

2 All: Gotov posporit', chto Mono, Argayl, i ije s nimi vosprimut moj post v duxe: "Ahaaa, zajralsya tam v Amerike, sovsem sovest' poteryal, Rodinu zabyl!!!!"
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Old 01.04.2002, 11:32   #12
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2 Tumanyan

po moemu my dogovorilis' v forume ne perexodit' na lichnosti

"vash nizkoprobnyj yumor" i prochee v tom zhe duxe, ne ochen' Vam k licu.

2 All
Na open source mozhno zarabotat', i ne ploxo. Voz'mem k primeru phpBB ili Iconboard: oni besplatny, odnako yesli kakaya nibud' kompaniya naymet specialista dlya ego ustanovki i nastroyki, to platit' emu budet $50 v chas.
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Old 01.04.2002, 11:46   #13
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2 groul:
Soglasen s tem, chto perexodit' na lichnosti ne stoit. No est' ponyatie peregiba palki. Vot kogda ee peregibayut - krika dushi v otvet neizbejat'.
Odnim slovom: zakryli temu (spasibo za kritiku).

V sluchae, ukazannom toboyu (nichego, chto na ty?), zarabatyvaet ne proizvoditel' open source, a nezavisimyj support.
Vot, esli development i support sovmesheny - poluchaetsya neploxoj navar.
Koroche govorya, soglasen, s vyskazannym mneniem, s uchetom izlojennoj ogovorki.

Krome togo, dobavlyu eshe odin tipichnyj sluchaj doxoda ot open source:
Snachala proekt razvivaetsya kak open source, no, nachinaya s nekotoroj versii rasprostranyaetsya kak commercial product. Starye versii, pri etom, ostayutsya dostupnymi besplatno. Fakticheski, poluchaetsya reklama: mnogie specialisty igrayut so starymi versiyami, znakomy s produktom neponaslyshke, rekomenduyut svoim firmam kupit' ego.

Kstati, vot eshe odno zamechanie po povodu besplatnyx programm:
Esli obrashali vnimanie, kak pravilo, besplatnym byvaet soft, prednaznachennyj dlya ispol'zovaniya professionalami. Vse popytki zasadit' business-usera za free soft, kak pravilo, okanchivayutsya neudachej.
T.e. vyvod takoj, koncepciya kollektivno/bezvozmezdnoj razrabotki naibolee primenima v sluchae programm, neprednaznachenyx dlya nekvalificirovannogo usera.
V kachestve illyustracii poslednego: Linux. Interesno bylo by poslushat' mnenie ego apologetov.
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Old 01.04.2002, 19:34   #14
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2BasilRex
Net.
Ne iz-za etogo.
Neskol'ko primerov.
Sendmail - Project nekommercheskiy. Odnako prodaetsya support i prodvinutie sredstva konfiguratsii.
FreeBSD - servernaya OS. Licenziya bolee svobodnaya chem GPL. Razreshaetsya modificirovat' kod i prodavat' ego.
Apache - Web-server. Licenziya takaya zhe kak u FreeBSD.

A navskidku rasskazhu istoriyu razrabotki zhurnaliruemoy systemy ReiserFS.
MP3.com imel bol'shuyu lineyku serverov rabotayushikh pod Linux. I t.k. v Linux ne bylo udobnoy zhurnaliruemoy faylovoy systemy - oni zakazali etu vesh Reiser-u s ego komandoy. Za den'gi. Reiser zhe vylozhil etot produkt pod licenziey GPL.

I bolee togo. NA proekte BSD basiruyutsya ochen' mnogo interesnykh resheniy. Naprimer TCP/IP stack dlya WinNT semeystva zaimstvovan iz BSD. MacOS X - eto BSD 4.4 sportirovanniy na PowerPC. Cisco IOS sil'no usechenniy i dorabotanniy variant BSD 4.3.
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Old 01.04.2002, 21:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by z0mbie:
vse taki ya ne soglasen s obosnovaniyami.. vse eto mozhno poluchit' i ne pokupaya..
i primer tvoy kasaetsya hardware a ne softa..
вполне очевидно, что если все начнут брать, не покупая, индустрия закроется
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