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Old 12.06.2004, 16:16   #31
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Well, let's assume Dashnasks get the power. What do you expect them to do?
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Old 12.06.2004, 16:30   #32
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Originally Posted by darrel
Well, let's assume Dashnasks get the power. What do you expect them to do?
Their actions will be tightly connected with the credibility of their party.
It will take a book to write what I expect them to do.
I do not see any other variant for this country.
Armenia needs organized party at the power.
I remember that LTP being in Istanbul called them terrorists and reactionary,
that seriously damaged that party image abroad, but I suppose that it is solvable matter.
But Dashnaks can be admitted to power only if they have strong opposition, otherwise it will be impossible in coming decade to take power from their hands. It is great risk to give them the power but it may turn that the nation will not have other choice.
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Old 12.06.2004, 16:49   #33
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Originally Posted by darrel
However, I am not agree with your statement about the absence of jurisprudence. There are some very good law professors who have worked out pretty good theories and legal schemes. But, they are a small group of academics and they do not really influence public policy.
Yes they are few, so if to average we have zero. Besides the Scientific Counsel of the Department of Law is like Koza-Nostra. Do you want me to number the names who are there?
Name me a good lawyer who systematically gets published abroad in the referred journals. Nazarjan uneink, na el avazaki xuzhani mekn er (husiv em voch gortci bnujti patcharov) ev "kaxvetc" mtatcelu unakutjune kortcnelu patcharov. Mi jerkit vortegh "iravabannerin 200$-ov talis en Sahmanadrutjun gren" [Nazarjani barern en] ... chem uzum artahajtvel.
Just few have few articles related with minor, unimportant local issues. I call that zero academic activities. We do not have proper lawyer well educated in matters of international law. The Armenian government have signed so many agreements destructive to the ends of our interests due to absence of credible and well learned (according to the western standards) lawyers. We have to hire lawyers aboard to represent interests of the Republic abroad. When I say that we do not have Jurisprudence, my words are backed by very obvious and measurable reality.
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Old 12.06.2004, 17:10   #34
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Originally Posted by analyst
Thw problem is that the law in Armenia will not function if the mentality of people does not change.
Mentality of people does not change by a miracle. I recommend reading Plato. All that was known from those times.

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Separate children from parents in the new city to stop old wrong believes be transferred from one generation to another.
That is why the Western campus system of the University helps to draw young guys from families and enables to educate them, as the University must do that in accordance with the true philosophy. Here is one of the powers of the Oxbridge.

There is a horrific example: Mr. Stalin just decided to murder the parents to stop knowledge and habits transfer from one generation to another. He did that for other purposes.
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Old 12.06.2004, 17:14   #35
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Originally Posted by Joshua12
Yes they are few, so if to average we have zero. Besides the Scientific Counsel of the Department of Law is like Koza-Nostra. Do you want me to number the names who are there?
Have you studied there? I do not really know who is in the Council now … Hazinyan, presumably, may be also Vigen Khachatryan. (?)

Quote:
Just few have few articles related with minor, unimportant local issues. I call that zero academic activities. We do not have proper lawyer well educated in matters of international law. The Armenian government have signed so many agreements destructive to the ends of our interests due to absence of credible and well learned (according to the western standards) lawyers. We have to hire lawyers aboard to represent interests of the Republic abroad. When I say that we do not have Jurisprudence, my words are backed by very obvious and measurable reality.
I agree, jurisprudence is not properly developed in this country (actually it was always like this. in soviet time most of lawyers who wanted to do academic carrier went to Moscow. Armenia was one of a few soviet republics that have not had comments on criminal and civil codes). But how this fact effects justice? I do not think the judge who made verdict on "bitten journalists case" had to be a brilliant lawyer to chose correct article.
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Old 12.06.2004, 17:27   #36
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Originally Posted by darrel
Have you studied there? I do not really know who is in the Council now.
No I did not. Let me not number names. They are very honorable people in the company of their friends.

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I agree, jurisprudence is not properly developed in this country (actually it was always like this. in soviet time most of lawyers who wanted to do academic carrier went to Moscow. Armenia was one of a few soviet republics that have not had comments on criminal and civil codes). But how this fact effects justice? I do not think the judge who made verdict on "bitten journalists case" had to be a brilliant lawyer to chose correct article.
Yes that is hereditary from USSR, Mediocrity is a companion of Armenian "justice" system. That considerably affects justice. If there is no philosophy of law there cannot be any justice.
Certainly he should not be excellent lawyer to make decision, but he must be the carrier of the philosophy of the law otherwise the justice cannot dominate. Think why do we keep judges, we can keep a quiz computer program! That is very fundamental aspect.
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Old 14.06.2004, 21:11   #37
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Originally Posted by Joshua12
No I did not. Let me not number names. They are very honorable people in the company of their friends.
Well, it's up to you ... just curios.

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Certainly he should not be excellent lawyer to make decision, but he must be the carrier of the philosophy of the law otherwise the justice cannot dominate.
Do you study in or graduated from AUA? I am sorry for this question, but you philosophy is very similar to what most of AUA law faculty students tell. Just curios.

Well, I do not know about your experience in Armenian courts, but from my point of view there are three main problem in area of administration of justice. The first one is the dependence of judge on executive (ministry of justice) and of course on the president. Second, poor social protection of judges (low salaries, poor working conditions). And third is it too late to change the abovementioned deficiencies - the train has gone, those who judge today would never be honest.

Armenia had a real chance to change the situation area of administration of justice, but failed because the ruling elite did not want the courts be independent. That's the story. Today it's one of the most corrupted systems in Armenia, because judge are appointed by president and do not depend on any civil society institution ... even press do not like to criticize them, because everybody may appear in the court.

Sorry, I have very progmatic approuch towards the politics.
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Old 14.06.2004, 21:27   #38
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Certainly those problems do exist. An all what you wrote is true and quite correct in view of cause and effect, but has questionable matters. The society does not change gradually. The system generally is modified buy few gentlemen. The best way to affect on situation is to drink coffee with those gentlemen from time to time, or with gentlemen who accustomed to drink tee with those gentlemen. And I will withstand from discussing personal aspects here.
To stop the train you have to communicate with one who drives the train or arranges the timetable. Here is the true pragmatism.
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Old 14.06.2004, 22:05   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua12
Certainly those problems do exist. An all what you wrote is true and quite correct in view of cause and effect, but has questionable matters. The society does not change gradually. The system generally is modified buy few gentlemen. The best way to affect on situation is to drink coffee with those gentlemen from time to time, or with gentlemen who accustomed to drink tee with those gentlemen. And I will withstand from discussing personal aspects here.
To stop the train you have to communicate with one who drives the train or arranges the timetable. Here is the true pragmatism.
Yes, you are right. But it is not always possible. That should be a job, not a hobby. Most of us are not politicians and we can not afford lobbing without being paid. We do that, but in some very specific areas of legal regulations that are a subject of ou professional interests (for me it's telecom, media and information law). For global changes lobbing is not efficient way - global changes is a subject of big politics. And again we face the same question - what is (or is there) a political force which can change that? You think it's Dashnaktsutiun. I think there is no such a political party yet. I believe that should be liberal political party, which in fact does not exist in Armenia (Armenian does not have liberal ideology at all - most of our political ideologies are too primitive).
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Old 15.06.2004, 21:00   #40
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That is the most wrong approach to the subject of lobbing by the way.
I was not speaking about lobbing I was speaking about cup of tea
that is quite different things. (i am not joking)
It is not possible at this stage to form liberal party in Armenia, as
there is no proper society of free people.
Just the flow of events should be corrected via consultations.
The Corrupted system must be studied, manipulated,
and then put in jail step by step in a way it show minimal resistance.
The absence of the Pure Source is a very great problem.
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Old 16.06.2004, 07:04   #41
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[QUOTE=Joshua12]That is the most wrong approach to the subject of lobbing by the way.
[QUOTE]

Really. So, which one is correct?

Quote:
I was not speaking about lobbing I was speaking about cup of tea
that is quite different things. (i am not joking)
So, do you think cup of tea will facilitate policy changes?

Quote:
It is not possible at this stage to form liberal party in Armenia, as
there is no proper society of free people.
No, it's because people have been mislead several times. They just do not believe that someone else wants to build such a society.

Quote:
Just the flow of events should be corrected via consultations.
The Corrupted system must be studied, manipulated,
and then put in jail step by step in a way it show minimal resistance.
Good approach, but not realistic.

Quote:
The absence of the Pure Source is a very great problem.
What do you mean saying "Pure Source?
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Old 18.06.2004, 20:25   #42
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Originally Posted by darrel
So, do you think cup of tea will facilitate policy changes?
Yes I think so. It always does so.

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No, it's because people have been mislead several times. They just do not believe that someone else wants to build such a society.
People always are misled. I am talking about proper misleading.

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Good approach, but not realistic.
It is not a good approach, it is working approach.

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What do you mean saying "Pure Source?
Pure source it something what is able to correlate processes. As an archaic example you can consider Delphi oracle.
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Old 19.06.2004, 17:47   #43
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Dera Joshua12

Your thoughts about the politics are very interesting, but I doubt about your experience in either policy or lobbing (policy advocacy). I may mistake, but the impression is like that. Do you have such an experience? To my best knowledge and experience in that area it works differently.
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Old 19.06.2004, 20:26   #44
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Dear Darrel,

Only theory, nothing serious.
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Old 20.06.2004, 23:38   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua12
Dear Darrel,

Only theory, nothing serious.
Ok, I see.
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