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View Poll Results: Pick one.
IE Thraco-Phrygian, Greco-Armenian, Hittite, Cimmerians etc. 1 100.00%
Non-IE Hurro-Urartian, Hayasa-Azzi, Meshech, Tabal etc. 0 0%
Both but mostly IE 0 0%
Both but mostly non-IE 0 0%
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Old 22.04.2005, 20:48   #1
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Default Question for Mono, Sandaramet, Hrach-Techie etc.

Do you identify yourselves with the IE Armenian tribes of Thraco-Phrygians, Hittites, Scythians/Cimmerians etc. more or with the autochtonous non-IE Hurro-Urartians, Hayasa-Azzi etc. ?

I will provide similar examples of ethnogenesis for reference.
In the case of Greeks the non-IE's are the Minoans and various Pelasgians of the mainland Hellas and Anatolia. The IE's would be the Achaeans/Myceneans, Dorians etc.

In the case of Romans/Italians (ethnic Latins not ancient Roman citizens), the non-IE's would be the Etruscans and various Pelasgians. The IE's would be the various Latin tribes and perhaps even Trojan(IE Wilusa) migrants.

Both Greek and Roman descendants acknowledge their non-IE heritage via Etruscans, Minoans, Pelasgians etc. yet primarily they identify themselves linguistically, culturally and racially with the IE's first and foremost.
There seems to be a cunfusion regarding this matter with Armenians. I would like to discuss these issues and the modern socio-economical as well as geo-political ramifications of each stance.
Old 22.04.2005, 20:51   #2
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opyat' fashisti...
Old 22.04.2005, 21:12   #3
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Это они перед 60-летием победы над фашизмом активировались
Old 22.04.2005, 21:16   #4
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bil bi ti moder, zabanil bi nax.
Old 22.04.2005, 21:25   #5
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Հայերեն գրի [moderated]

Last edited by darrel; 23.04.2005 at 19:15.
Old 22.04.2005, 21:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thracian
Հայերեն գրի [moderated]:
vot vot. istinnoe lico pokazal.

Last edited by darrel; 23.04.2005 at 19:16.
Old 22.04.2005, 21:49   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNYer
vot vot. istinnoe lico pokazal.
Դե մեզ ուր ձեր գեղեցկությունը:

Old 22.04.2005, 21:56   #8
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ya trebuyu zabanit' etogo uroda!
Old 22.04.2005, 22:17   #9
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ie - internet explorer?...
Old 22.04.2005, 22:22   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNYer
ya trebuyu zabanit' etogo uroda!
да, невежливый гражданин ... наверное, ариец
Old 22.04.2005, 23:19   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNYer
ya trebuyu zabanit' etogo uroda!
Choke on this untermensch.

Old 22.04.2005, 23:50   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thracian
Choke on this untermensch.

and after all this we want world to recognize our genocide

we will never achieve our goal while such morons are among us giving Israel a reason to dislike Armenia.
Old 23.04.2005, 00:05   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNYer
and after all this we want world to recognize our genocide

we will never achieve our goal while such morons are among us giving Israel a reason to dislike Armenia.
[moderated]
~~~
Israeli Foreign Minister Urges Jewish Organizations to Support Turkey

(Combined Sources)--Accoring to the Turkish newspaper Cumhuriyet, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom recently met with the leadership of Jewish organizations in the US, asking for their support for Turkey in fighting a US Congressional resolution on the Armenian genocide. Israeli diplomatic sources said that Shalom warned that the adoption of such a resolution by US Congress would harm the "special relation" the US, Turkey, and Israel share.

http://www.asbarez.com


Thursday, May 04, 2000
No Policy Change over "Armenian Genocide": Israel

Israel told the Turkish Foreign Ministry that there was no policy change on its side over the so-called Armenian genocide, saying that it is up to historians, not politicians, to discuss the issue, Turkish Daily News reported on Wednesday. Turkey summoned Israeli Charge d'Affaires Moshe Kamhi last Tuesday and demanded clarification of Israeli Education Minister Yossi Sarid's statement that accounts of this alleged incident should be included into Israel's high-school curriculum.

Armenians regard killings of their compatriots by Turks during World War I as a systematic genocide, but Turkey claims that they were the "unfortunate outgrowth of deportations" intended to prevent Armenians from assisting the invading Russian armies at that time.

Armenia is pushing for a bill condemning Turkey and trying to win sympathy from the world. One day after Sarid's statement, Israeli Justice Minister Yossi Beilin claimed that the event was a genocide and nothing else. Both remarks created concerns on the Turkish side that a policy shift on the issue by Israel was being signaled.

It was reported that Israel had told the Turkish Foreign Ministry that the two ministers' statements were their personal opinions, not government policy on the issue. Israel has declared that there was no change in its policy over the so-called Armenian genocide, reaffirming that it still sticks to what was expressed in 1995 that the topic should be discussed among historians, not politicians.

Legislative hurdles expected no matter who controls Congress
By Sharon Samber

WASHINGTON, Oct. 31 (JTA) – With the November elections just around the corner, Jewish observers and activists are predicting that no matter who wins control of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, the Jewish communal agenda will encounter some of the same legislative hurdles it faced in the 106th session.

The 106th Congress passed only a few pieces of legislation that had been pushed hard by Jewish groups. Among them:

• a U.S. aid package for Israel that includes $1.98 billion in military and $840 million in economic funds.

Legislation whose status remained unclear as Congress worked to conclude its session this week includes:

• exempting from income tax restitution payments to Holocaust survivors;

...

• cutting off aid to the Palestinians if they unilaterally declare a state.

...

While there is division in the Jewish community over a number of issues, many Jewish groups band together on a range of issues. Jewish organizations feel they were successful in quashing school voucher initiatives, a resolution that would have blamed Turkey for its early 20th-century genocide against Armenians.

...

http://www.jta.org/story.asp?story=6431


September 6, 2000 - Calling for continued cooperation between Turkish and Jewish communities, President Ahmet Necdet Sezer was in New York Tuesday, ahead of the UN Millennium Summit.

Addressing representatives of the Jewish community in New York City, President Sezer expressed his pleasure over the support US Jews had given Turkey in fighting Turkey's enemies over the years.

At a press conference following the meeting, Presidential Office Director and Head Consultant to the Ministry of State Tacan Ildem addressed reporters questions over whether the US Congressional draft law on the alleged Armenian genocide had come up at the meeting.

"The President acknowledged the success of the efforts of the Jewish community in fighting against anti-Turkish elements," Ildem said, "expressed his pleasure at the close and fruitful cooperative relations between the Turkish and Jewish communities in the United States, and voiced his belief that these same determined cooperative relations would continue in the future to act cohesively against elements destructive to Turkey's interests."

I don't have the URL for this one, but it was news just after the US resolution to recognize the Armenian Genocide was "shelved" by Klinton at the request of Shimon Peres.

["Behind the Scenes" - Istanbul Sabah (Ankara edition) - 23 October, 2000
[FBIS Translated Text] What happened? How did it happen? Why did Clinton send a letter at the very last minute to the Chairman of the House of Representatives Dennis Hastert? Who was the mastermind behind this plan?
Let us go back a bit. Let us open up our files and share with you what we have found out.]

...

[We are back in Washington and we are having intensive talks with the Jewish lobby groups. AIPAC, Jinsa, Bnai Brith, and ADI. AJC are a little distant. They ask us what is going on. The message we try to give them is: "The acceptance of the resolution will have a strongly negative effect on Turkish-American strategic relations, but also on Turkish-Israeli strategic relations."]

...

[The Jewish lobby in Turkey had been flooding the House of Representatives and the US administration with messages asking for the resolution to be halted. The Muslim, Jewish, and Armenian citizens of Turkey were doing all they could along with all of the State's official bodies. Our Ambassador in Washington, working with his shamefully tiny nine-person team, was making a superhuman effort. Turkish associations in this country, for instance the ATAA and others, were very active. The US administration did what it could, albeit a little late in the day...]

...

[As for the situation in Washington. The Jewish lobby threw all its weight into the job just before the weekend... And very openly at that. The chairman of AIPEC met with Hastert and "Explained all the concerns in plain English" and put pressure on Hastert. Then he said, "By playing this game, you may well gain a few more Armenian votes, but have you stopped to consider how many Jewish votes you will lose by this?"]

...

[News that Hastert had tried to find a way out of this situation were heard at this time. He had made a promise to the Armenians. He had to get out of this tight spot he was in without harming himself. Finally, he said, "If President Clinton sends me a letter informing me of the situation, I will not go ahead with this vote..."]

...

[That the Chairman of the House of Representatives was looking for an escape option was finally clear for all to see. Another Jew had come down from Chicago and put the squeeze on Hastert because they had financed the Republicans to the tune of $10 million or more.]

...

[So who stepped in so that this message would reach Clinton and Hastert would be given his final warning? Who was this person?]

...

[Time was fast running out. It was just at this time that the telephone of a certain individual in Israel rang. The caller was a Jewish Turk calling from Istanbul. He explained in very clear terms to the Israeli on the other end of the phone exactly what the situation was and what the consequences were likely to be. He said it was imperative that he intervene. The esteemed Israeli on the other end of the telephone, on hearing this, said, "I put a great deal of effort into bringing about peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Do not worry, I will do everything I can to prevent my work going down the drain..."
The person speaking was Shimon Peres.]

[He immediately made a plan and intervened. The situation was relayed to Presi-dent Clinton. Clinton wrote a letter to Hastert that Wednesday and sent it to him. In the meantime, Hastert was informed of the viewpoints of Chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Shelton and of Secretaries of State and Defense Albright and Cohen.]

...

[The Chairman of the House of Representatives abandoned putting the resolution to the vote. According to the plan, he was saving his hide. He would now be able to tell the Armenians, "I did the best I could. I got it past the commissions. I got it put on the agenda. But in the end, President Clinton's letter said this was as far as it goes. There was nothing I could do in the face of this letter." The nonsense carried out to win a seat in California had been brought to an end...]

...

http://www.atour.com/~aahgn/news/20001103b.html

PERES: "IT WAS A TRAGEDY, NOT A GENOCIDE"

Anadolu New Agency,
11 April, 2001

Turkiye

Replying to the Armenians' claim that they were victims of genocide, Peres
said, "We oppose this definition. What happened to the Armenians was a
tragedy, not a genocide." /Turkiye/

Peres: Armenian allegations are meaningless

Turkish Daily News
10 April, 2001

On the eve of his visit to Turkey, Israeli Foreign Minister Peres says
Armenian allegations are 'meaningless' and there is no similarity between
the Holocaust and Armenian incidents

Ankara - Turkish Daily News

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres who started his one-day official visit
to Turkey today, has stressed that the Armenian allegations of genocide was
meaningless. Supporting Turkey's thesis that history should be dealt with by
historians over the Armenian issue, Peres said:"We reject attempts to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian allegations. Nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. It is a tragedy what the Armenians went through but not a genocide."

"In Armenia this week, fallout continued from a highly charged state-ment by Israeli Ambassador Rivki Kohen in which she downplayed the significance of the Armenian Genocide. During a February 8th press conference in Yerevan, Kohen argued that the "Holocaust was a unique phenomenon, since it had always been planned and aimed to destroy the whole nation. At this stage nothing should be compared with Holocaust.""

The Holocaust in Historical Context, Vol. 1
Steven T. Katz


"The fact that I choose for specific reasons of definition to deny the term genocide to the Armenian case is not meant to entail any diminishment of Armenian suffering or death.” P 22.

"The Holocaust is phenomenologically unique…by virtue of the fact that never before has a state set out, as a matter of intentional principle and actualized policy, to annihilate physically every man, woman, and child belonging to a specific people" P 27-28.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Holocaust in Historical Perspective
Yehuda Bauer

“We should properly use the term “Holocaust” to describe the policy of total physical annihilation of a nation or a people. To date, this has happened once, to the Jews under Nazism.” P 38.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"As one proponent of the uniqueness of the Holocaust, Edward Alexander, has put it, to describe asgenocidal the ghastly agonies suffered by others-the Armenians, for instance-is "to plunder the moralcapital" of the Jewish people. It is to "steal the Holocaust."

http://codoh.com/reference/dangofcall.html

The Holocaust in American Life by Peter Novick. pg. 192-193.

""Jews who were admitted into the Ottoman Empire by Sultan Bayazid II are of the opinion that claims of genocide in Turkey are lies." David Asseo, Istanbul's Chief Rabbi."

"Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt on why the German program of genocide remains in a class by itself as an example of evil: "It was the only time in recorded history that a state tried to destroy an entire people, regardless of an individual's age, sex, location, profession, or belief.”"

"Rabbi Irving Greenberg, founder of the Holocaust Resource Center and first director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Commission, has described the comparison of the Nazi Holocaust with other acts of genocide as "blasphemous.""

Last edited by darrel; 23.04.2005 at 19:19.
Old 23.04.2005, 00:07   #14
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The Planned, Organized,
Executed Genocide
Of Armenians
By Jack Manuelian
3-27-5


Were the plans of the 1915-23 Armenian Genocide actually drawn up and were in place by the year 1910 or 1912? According to some sources, definitely yes.

There is the book Inner Folds of the Ottoman Revolution written by Mevlan Zadeh Rifat and published in 1929, the author, a pro-sultan Turk, claims that the "Armenian genocide was decided in August 1910 and October 1911, by a Young Turk committee composed entirely of displaced Balkan Jews in the format of a syncretist Jewish-Muslim sect which included Talaat, Enver, Behaeddin Shakir, Jemal, and Nizam posting as Muslims. It met in the Rothschild-funded Grand Orient loge/hotel of Salonika." Syncretism means a combination of different forms of belief or practice; masonism fits that description.

A 1994 conference paper/lecture by Joseph Brewda of Schiller Institute entitled Palmerson launches Young Turks to permanently control Middle East claims the founder of the Young Turks to be a certain Jew by the name of Emmanuel Carasso. He states: "Carasso set up the Young Turk secret society in the 1890s in Salonika, then part of Turkey, and now part of Greece. Carasso was also the grand master of an Italian masonic lodge there, called 'Macedonia Resurrected.' The lodge was the headquarters of the Young Turks, and all the top Young Turk leadership were members."

Further on Mr. Brewda says: "During the Young Turk regime, Carasso continued to play a leading role. He met with the sultan, to tell him that he was overthrown. He was in charge of putting the sultan under house arrest. He ran the Young Turk intelligence network in the Balkans. And he was in charge of all food supplies in the empire during World War I." It is ironic that five centuries after the Turkish sultans welcomed the expelled European Jews into Turkey, certain Jews belonging to secret societies and to Zionism will kick the sultans out of power early in 20th century, destroy the Ottoman Empire, and celebrate their victory by massacring by proxy almost the whole Christian Armenian people, one million and half Armenians; half million Greeks; and half million Christian Assyrians & Arameans.


Mr. Brewda writes: "Another important area was the press. While in power, the Young Turks ran several newspapers, including 'The Young Turk,' whose editor was none other than the Russian Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky had been educated as a young man in Italy."

Mr. Brewda, ignoring the possibility that Talaat could have been a secret infiltrated Jew, writes: "Of course, there were also some Turks who helped lead the Young Turk movement. For example, Talaat Pasha. Talaat was the interior minister and dictator of the regime during World war I. He had been a member of Carasso's Italian masonic lodge in Salonika. One year prior to the 1908 coup, Talaat became the grand master of the Scottish Rite Masons in the Ottoman Empire. If you go to the [archives of] Scottish Rite headquarters in Washington, D.C., you can find that most of the Young Turk leaders were officials in the Scottish Rite."

Mr. Brewda also mentions the novel Greenmantle, whose hero is a British spy who led the Young Turks, and that the book's author, John Buchan, later identified the novel's hero as the English nobleman Aubrey Herbert, who was the top British spy master in the Middle East during WW I. And that Lawrence of Arabia later identified Herbert as having been, at one time, the head of the Young Turks. According to Mr. Brewda, Carasso also appears in that novel under the name Carusso.

By 1916 the British and French, overpowered by greed, already had a secret agreement to divide the Ottoman Empire between themselves. Presently Hitler's Mien Kempt anti-semitic book is a best-seller in Turkey, it is published by various Turkish publishers by the thousands and thousands. Are the Turks finally waking up and realizing that their Sultan's refusal to grant Palestine to the Zionist Jews as a homeland had cost them their centuries- old empire?

Talaat was a living witness to the Genocide and history. He should not have been assassinated. His silencing for good by hot-tempered Armenians only served those who planned and executed the Genocide. Had he been left alone, who knows he might have confessed everything at his old age or at his deathbed.

Another conspiratorial source is the lengthy article The Armenian & Jewish Genocide Project: Eliminating Ethnic Conflict Along the Oil Route From Baku to the Suez Canal Region written by Clifford Shack and posted in his web-site.

Mr. Shack writes: "In the 1880's, the French branch of the Rothschild family acquired interests in Russia's Baku oil fields in an effort to supply their refinery on the Adriatic with cheap Russian oil. In exchange for these interests they built a railroad linking Baku to the newly acquired Black Sea port of Batum. This opened up the Baku oil, a major world supply, to the world. With the success of the new railroad, the Rothschilds had more oil than they could actually sell. Overcoming their fear of competing with the giant Standard oil [of USA], they sought out the huge [Far East] markets east of Suez."

Further on Mr. Shack makes his point: "The decision by the shrewd French Rothschild branch to diversify into other areas of oil exploitation was, presumably, a calculated one. Three years after they joined Royal Dutch, production at Baku would come to an abrupt halt in 1905. Although shaken by political activity, the principal disruption was due to the violence of the ethnic conflict between the region's Muslims and the minority population of Armenians who are Christians. This ethnic conflict caused the first interruption of oil distribution to the world market. Standard oil was quick to supplant the needs of the effected markets as its source was operating under the blanket of peace. The Royal/Dutch/Shell Group (and the Nobles) watched their Baku investments go up in flames. Ethnic conflict was at the root of the matter. It could be safely assumed that they were taking measures to eliminate the possibility of that happening in the future." Oil corporations seem to have learned their lessons from history because before the construction of present-day Baku-Ceyhan pipeline has began, someone has made sure that no Armenians were left in Baku anymore. Although the Armenian threat to that pipeline has been neutralized, yet there is still A Turkish ultra-nationalist revival threat, and a threat from Iran if Iran comes under attack from USA or Israel. There is a very clean prophecy of Nostradamus stating: "By firepower of armies, not far from the Black Sea, he will come from Persia/Iran to occupy Trebizond." Trebizond is located at the shore of the Black Sea and its occupation will virtually cut the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline in half. Another prophecy of Nostradamus reads: "Toward Persia/Iran a sizable army of a million. The serpent Satan invading Byzantium and Egypt." Byzantium & Egypt could be a mystical name for modern Istanbul asSodom & Egypt is the mystical name given for Jerusalem in the book Revelation 11:8.

Mr. Shack notes that "the mere elimination of the Armenian population of Baku would not solve the problem of ethnic conflict in that region. The surrounding areas would provide reservoir effect in resupplying the conflicting minority element." And he asks: "was the removal [in 1915-23] of a small minority like the Armenians [from historical Armenia] a fair price to pay for the peace in a region so crucial to the development and investment of the Far East?" Apparently Mr. Shack ignores the factor of revenge raging in the heart of human beasts.

Mr. Shacks answers his own question by stating in his article about the big business or big corporations: "It would be fair to say that the genocide of a group of a million or so, to serve the benefit of a billion or so [in the Far East], is less of a question of should it be done, than how it could be done. So as not to reveal any plausible motive which could link the actual planners to the genocide, the scheme involved a proxy party [namely the muslim Turks, Kurds & Azeris] , which was manipulated through layers of influence, providing sufficient cover for the planners."

The fool said in his ignorance, "There was no planned and organized and executed genocide of the Armenians."

In chapter 30 of the book of Isaiah, we read God speaking by His prophet: "Woe to the rebellious children, who execute a plan, but not Mine, and make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, in order to add sin to sin;...For this is a rebellious people, false sons, sons who refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord."

March 27, 2005
Jack Manuelian
[email protected]


Note - this article is NOT copyrighted. Anyone can duplicate in any form. - Jack Manuelian)
http://www.rense.com/general63/armen.htm
Old 23.04.2005, 00:10   #15
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The Young Turks: Who Were They?

[During the last quarter of the 19th century, the Near East Question passed into its critical phase. As a result of the Russo-Turkish war of 1877-78, the Ottoman Empire lost extensive territory mainly in the Balkans where the "autonomous" states of Bulgaria, Bosnia, and Herzegovina passed into the de facto administrative sphere of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Thessaly and the prefecture of Artas were ceded to Greece, and in Asia, Russia annexed the territories of Kars and Ardachan in Turkish Armenia. In Africa, the English claimed Egypt, and the French Tunisia, while the Italians did not bother to conceal their territorial ambitions toward Tripoli. Meanwhile, the dissident movements in Crete, Armenia, and Macedonia were beginning to reach worrisome levels for the Turkish Sultanate.]

...

[One of the first real threats to the Ottoman Throne was a hard-core, conspiratorial group that formed in 1889 among the students of the Military Medical School in Constantinople.]

...

[The conspiratorial leadership, who came to be known as the Young Turks.]

...

Union and Progress

[The Young Turk movement -- after many mishaps and near dissolution -- finally achieved it first goal. In early July of 1908, led by the officer-members of the Committee of Union and Progress (Itihàt vè Terakì), the Turkish troops stationed in Macedonia refused to obey orders coming from Constantinople. The Young Turks then sent a telegraphed ultimatum to the Sultan from Serres on the 21st of July. They demanded the immediate restoration and implementation of the constitution, and threatened him with dethronement should he fail to comply. On the 24th of July, Abdul Hamit announced that the constitution had been restored and was in full force and effect.]

...

[The subsequent mid-20th century overthrow of King Farouk in Egypt by the Nasserite revolutionaries bears some striking similarities to the Young Turk movement. There are, however, some very striking differences as well. Some of these are: 1) the diverse ethnic background of the conspirators; 2) the significant and crucial role played by the allied movement of fellow-conspirators known as the Donmè (Jews who had converted [?] to Islam); and, 3) the enthusiastic way in which the conspiracy was embraced by Masonic elements.]

...

[As far as the multiethnic composition of the conspirators is concerned, one need only read their names to verify their diverse background: Tserkès (Circassion ), Mehmet Ali, Xersekli (Herzogovinians), Ali Roushdi, Kosovali (Kosovars) and others. In many cases, the ethnic origin of the conspirator was not evident from the name: Ibrahim Temo was an Albanian, as was Ismail Kemal. Murat Bey Dagestanos and Achmet Riza had an Arkhazian father and an Austrian mother. One of the theoreticians of the movement was Ziyia Ngiokali, a Kurd, while one of the major planners of tactics and theory was a Jew from Serres who went by the name of Tekìn Alì (real name, Moshe Cohen).]

...

The telegraph-office clerk who became one of the ruling troika of post-revolutionary Turkey, Talaàt Pasha, was Bosnian, Pomack, or Gypsy; the point being that he was not a Turk. We should also make note of the fact that the Committee of Union and Progress admitted many members from areas outside of the Ottoman Empire, and that some of these even served on its Central Committee.

NOTE: Raphael De Nogales, in his book "Four Years Under the Crescent", refferers to Talaat as "The renegade jew from Salonika".

Masonic elements

[The strong connection between the Itihàts (conspirators) and Masonry is a well-documented fact. The leftist Turkish writer, Kamouran Mberik Xartboutlou, in his book, The Turkish Impasse ( from the Greek translation of the French publication of 1974. p.24), wrote: "Those who desired entry into the inner circle of that secret organization [the Itihàt], had to be a Mason, and had to have the backing of a large segment of the commercial class." The true nature of the relationship between the Young Turks and the Masonic lodges of Thessaloniki has been commented upon by many researchers and writers. In her well-known and extensively documented book, Secret Societies and Subversive Movements (London. 1928, p. 284), author and historian Nesta Webster writes that "The Young Turk movement began in the Masonic lodges of Thessaloniki under the direct supervision of the Grand Orient Lodge of Italy, which later shared in the success of Mustapha Kemal."]

[Of course, the precise nature of this relationship is clouded in mystery, but enough facts exist allowing for more than just informed conjecture based on circumstantial evidence. An example of the Itihàt-Masonic connection is the interview that Young Turk, Refik Bey, gave to the Paris newspaper Le Temps, on the 20th of August 1908: "It's true that we receive support from Freemasonry and especially from Italian Masonry. The two Italian lodges [of Thessaloniki] -- Macedonia Risorta and
Labor et Lux -- have provided invaluable services and have been a refuge for us. We meet there as fellow Masons, because it is a fact that many of us are Masons, but more importantly we meet so that we can better organize ourselves."]

The Jewish Component

[The Donmè ("convert" in Turkish), was a Hebrew heresy whose followers converted [?] to Islam in the 18th century. They were most heavily concentrated in Thessaloniki. According to the Great Hellenic Encyclopedia [Megali Elliniki Enkiklopethia]: "It is generally accepted that the Donmè secretly continue to adhere to the Hebrew religion and don't allow their kind to intermarry with the Muslims."]

...

[The disproportionate power and influence (in light of their number) that the Donmè had on both the Ottoman Empire and on the Young Turk movement has been the subject of a great deal of commentary by many observers and researchers. The eminent British historian, R. Seton Watson, in his book, The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans. London, 1917 (H Gennisi tou Ethnikismou sta Valkania), wrote the following: "The real brains behind the [Itihàt] movement were Jews or Islamic-Jews. The wealthy Donmè and Jews of Thessaloniki supported [the Young Turks] economically, and their fellow Jewish capitalists in Vienna and Berlin -- as well as in Budapest and possibly Paris and London -- supported them financially as well.]

...

[In the January 23rd, 1914, issue of the Czarist Police [Okrana] Ledger (Number 16609), directed to the Ministry of the Exterior in Saint Petersburg, we read: "A pan-Islamic convention of Itihàts and Jews was held in the Nouri Osman lodge in Constantinople. It was attended by approximately 700 promi-nent Itihàts and Jews, including "Minister" Talaàt Bey, Bentri Bey, Mbekri Bey, and (Donmè) Javit Bey. Among the many Jews in attendance, two of the most prominent were the Head of the Security Service, Samouel Effendi, and the Vice-Administrator of the Police, Abraham Bey."]

Donmè and Constantine

[The numerous Donmè in positions of authority within the machinery of the Itihàt government, as well as on the powerful Central Committee, strengthens the conviction that their influence was widespread and vital to the cause. Ignoring the names mentioned in the Czarist Police Ledger, and even ignoring such Jews as the fanatical Pan-Turkic [Marxist revolutionary and poet, Hikmet] Nazim, or even the many casual allusions [as if it were common knowledge at the time] to the Jewish descent of that most dedicated believer in the Young Turk movement, Mustapha Kemal "Atatürk," one still finds oneself wondering by what authority and under whose auspices was such an obscure Jewish Donmè from Thessaloniki, by the name of Emmanouel Karasso, able to become a member of the three-man committee that announced his dethronement to Sultan Abdul Hamit after the counter-coup of April 1909?]

...

[Compelling, too, is the widely-referenced document which states that Constantine, the King of Greece at the time, characterized the entire Young Turk movement as composed of "Israelites." According to the facts presented in her book, Glory and Partisanship, the Greek professor of the University of Vienna, Polychroni Enepekithi, contends that Constantine made that characterization while complaining to the German Ambassador in Athens about the outrages committed by Young Turks against Hellenes living in the Ottoman Empire.]

...

[These references to the relationship between the Donmè, the Masons, and the Young Turks has not been prompted by anti-Semitism [sic] or Masonophobia. Rather, we are attempting to shed some light on what to us seems like a puzzling paradox in this revolutionary movement, which is: Why it is that this non-Turkish leadership struggled so hard under the banner of justice for the Turkish people? Also, why is it that others, having nothing to do with Sunnite Islam [the form of Islam practiced in Turkey] struggled equally hard under the banner of justice for Islam? The only answer to this paradox demands that we consider that there may have been another reason behind their fervid struggle, and that this un-stated cause is what bound these "ideologues" together.]

Source
Nemesis. by Ioasif Kassesian. September 2001. pp. 64-66.
Translated by staff. Emphasis added.
Translation © by TGR.

http://www.grecoreport.com/

Let us not forget.

The Secret Jews,
Joachim Prinz, 1973, pp. 111-122

[In December 1686, more than three hundred families converted to Islam in Salonika. Like Shabtai and other Marranos, they continued to attend Jewish services secretly and observed certain Jewish customs in their homes.]

...

[This was the origin of the most important group, numerically and historically, of Islamic Marranos. The faithful Mohammedans call these hidden Jews 'doenmehs', the renegades. Over the years the 'doenmeh' movement became firmly established in Asia Minor. In the nineteenth century the sect was estimated to have twenty thousand members. Salonikare-mained its main seat until that city became Greek in 1913. Although the Jewish community remained there under Greek rule, the 'doenmehs' moved to Constantinople.]

...

[I shall meticulously adhere to the customs of the Turks so as not to arose their suspicion. I shall not only observe the Fast of Ramadan but all the other Muslim customs which are observed in public.]

...

[From time to time the Turkish governors of Salonika, who received complaints about the sect from the Mohammedan clergy, tried to investigate the strange existence of the 'doenmehs'. Their clannishness, their refusal to mingle with Mohammedan families, and their marital restrictions had become a well-known fact, difficult to hide from the majority of the people among whom they had lived for many generations. Socially, they seemed impenetrable, although in their Moslem religious practices they were beyond reproach. In fact, they often seemed even more devout followers of the Prophet Mohammed and more sincere worshipers of Allah than the rest of the community. They fasted during Ramadan, and their leaders and adherents were found in large, even conspicuous numbers among the pilgrims to Mecca.]

...

[The revolt of the Young Turks in 1908 against the authoritarian regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid began among the intellectuals of Salonika. It was from there that the demand for a constitutional regime originated. Among the leaders of the revolution which resulted in a more modern government in Turkey were Djavid Bey and Mustafa Kemal. Both were ardent 'doenmehs'. Djavid Bey became minister of finance; Mustafa Kemal became the leader of the new regime and he adopted the name of Ataturk. His opponents tried to use his 'doenmeh' background to unseat him, but without success. Too many of the Young Turks in the newly formed revolutionary Cabinet prayed to Allah, but had as their real prophet Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna.]

...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dönme also spelled DÖNMEH (Turkish: "Convert"), Jewish sect founded in Salonika (now Thessaloníki, Greece) in the late 17th century, after the conversion to Islam of Shabbetai Tzevi, whom the sectarians believed to be the Messiah. The Dönme, who numbered about 15,000 in the late 20th century, are found primarily in Istanbul, Edirne, and Izmir, Turkey.]

...

[Shabbetai Tzevi had proclaimed himself the Messiah in 1648 and quickly gained financial support and a considerable following among Jews throughout the Holy Land, Europe, and North Africa. Early in 1666 he was arrested by Ottoman Turks and, faced with the choice of conversion or death, accepted Islam by the end of the year. The Dönme believed that the conversion of Shabbetai Tzevi was a step in the fulfillment of the messianic prophecy. They therefore also converted to Islam but secretly practiced various Judaic rites. Although they remained apart from the larger Jewish community, they preserved some knowledge of Hebrew, kept secret Hebrew names, forbade intermarriage with the Muslim population, and conducted their marriage and funeral rites in secret. As the Dönme remained secretive and lived in separate quarters, they were not generally noticed by the Muslims.]

...

[At the turn of the 20th century, the Dönme, well represented in the professional classes, took active part in the Young Turk movement and the revolution of 1908. After the Greco-Turkish War of 1921-22, the central Dönme community of Thessaloníki was moved to Istanbul]

...

http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/a...1+30930,00.html

Young Turks and the Armenian Genocide

[The Young Turks were the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide.]

...

[To consolidate Turkish rule in the remaining territories of the Ottoman Empire and to expand the state into the so-called Turanian lands in the east, most held by Iran and Russia, the CUP devised in secret a program for the extermination of the Armenian population. From the viewpoint of Ittihadist ideology and its new and ambitious foreign policy, the Armenians represented a completely vulnerable population straddling an area of major strategic value for its Pan-Turanian goals. Ottoman misrule had made the Armenians, a prosperous minority despite its political disadvantages, sympathetic to Russia. To the Ittihadists, the global crisis of 1914 represented a rare opportunity to change the fortunes of the Ottoman state and to use the cover of war to embark upon a policy of both internal and external social engineering the likes of which had not been attempted or imagined. Once again they gambled on the element of surprise, subterfuge, and radical daring, this time against a civilian minority population.]

...

[The main thrust of the Armenian Genocide, however, was implemented within the first year of the war, years ahead of any imminent collapse. While the mass deportations of the civilian Armenian population was carried out in the spring and summer of 1915 and were completed by the fall, the systematic slaughter of the Armenians had started earlier with the murder of the able-bodied males already drafted into the Ottoman armed forces. By expropriating the movable and immovable wealth of the Armenians, the CUP also looked upon its policy of genocide as a means for enriching its coffers and rewarding its cohorts. The elimination of a commercially viable minority fulfilled part of the nationalist program to concentrate financial power in the hands of the state and promote greater Turkish control over the domestic economy.]

...

[In his capacity as the Deputy Commander-in-Chief (the honorary command being reserved for the sovereign), Enver exercised ultimate control over the Ottoman armies which carried out major atrocities, first in 1915 and then with renewed vigor when Turkish forces broke the Russian line in 1918 and invaded the Caucasus. The forces under the command of his brother, Nuri, and uncle, Halil, spread devastation through Russian Armenia and carried out massacres of Armenians all the way to Baku.]

...

[Talaat as Minister of the Interior in Istanbul ran the government for a figurehead grand vizier. He was the mastermind of the Armenian Genocide and coordinated the various agencies of the Ottoman government required for the deportation, expropriation, and extermination of the Armenians.]

...

[Jemal ... As commander of Syria, the concentration camps and extermination sites fell within his jurisdiction.]

...

[Beyond the government ministries, the CUP also operated secret groups for the purpose of infiltrating enemy territory and for promoting Pan-Turkism in neighboring countries. The most infamous of its operations was the Teshkilâti Mahsusa, Special Organization, composed of outlaws especially recruited to carry out the CUP secret agenda. The high purpose of their mission was evidenced by their disposition at the command of two major CUP ideologues, Dr. Nazim and Dr. Behaeddin Shakir, both of them medical professionals, the prime organizers of the on-site implementation of the Armenian Genocide. Lastly, the CUP entrusted local command of the genocidal process to the provincial valis, or governors-general, who were made responsible for the execution of Talaat's and Enver's orders.]

NOTE: In his book "Four Years Under the Crescent", Raphael De Nogalis refferes to Talaat as "The renegade jew from Salonika".

AF

...

—Rouben Paul Adalian




New York Times
OCTOBER 16, 1915

PETROGRAD, Oct. 16.--John A. Ray, the American Consul at Odessa, was visited today by a deputation of Armenian students attending the University of Odessa, says a special dispatch from that city, and asked to convey to President Wilson the Gratitude of Armenians for the advocacy of their cause in Turkey by the American Government.

http://www.cilicia.com/armo10c-nyt19151016c.html

"President Wilson also extended his moral support for the efforts of the Near East Relief organization by dedicating two days in October 1916 for a nationwide fundraising drive."


“Zionists powerbrokers such as Bernard Baruch, Louis Brandeis, Paul Warburg, Jacob Schiff, and many others immediately went to work to put the screws to President Woodrow Wilson.” (1916)

“According to Freedman, Wilson had been blackmailed by Zionists with the threat of a public disclosure of an old extramarital affair Wilson had when he was president of Princeton University.”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/stf1.html



“Wilson may have been particularly motivated by his passion to stop the massacres of Armenian and Greek Christians which were then taking place in Turkey and for whom he expressed immense solicitude On many occasions. Weizmann, however, accompanied by the French Zionist M. Weyl, forewarned, proceeded to intercept them at Gibraltar and persuaded them to return home.”( Yale, The Near East: A Modern History, p. 241 Also article by William Yale in World Politics, (New Haven: April 1949), Vol. I, No.3, pp. 308-320 on 'Ambassador Morgenthau's Special Mission of 1917'; Stein, The Balfour Declaration, pp. 352-360.)

"T.W.Wilson, elected in 1913 and reelected in 1917 with the massive support of the American Zionist organizations, also well informed of the distress of Armenians, did not start any energetic humanitarian undertakings with the ottoman Ambassador to the United States." (La Honte Sioniste. By Lucien Cavro Demars. P 20-21.)



Woodrow Wilson's January 27, 1916 Proclamation

President Woodrow Wilson issued a Proclamation on this day, stating: "Whereas, in the various countries now engaged in war, there are nine millions of Jews, the great majority of whom are destitute of food, shelter, and clothing; driven from their homes without warning ... causing starvation, disease and untold suffering; and Whereas the people of the United States of America have learned ... of this terrible plight ... I, Woodrow Wilson, do proclaim January 27, 1916, as a day upon which [to]... make contributions...for the aid of the stricken Jewish people. Contributions may be addressed to the American Red Cross."

In 1919, Felix M. Warburg, was the Chairman of the Joint Distribution Committee of American Funds for Jewish War Sufferers. He was reporting that "The Jews were the worst sufferers in the war”..... “The successive blows of contending armies have all but broken the back of European Jewry and have reduced to tragically unbelievable poverty,starvation and disease about 6,000,000 souls, or half the Jewish population of the earth.’ He went on to say “For more than four years the war on the Eastern front was fought largely in the centers of Jewish population” and that “after the cataclysm of the last few years it is too much to expect this Jewry to become self-sustaining in a short twelve-month.” [New York times November 12, 1919.}

"Six million men and women are dying ... eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, ... but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..."
--The American Hebrew (New York, issue 582 of October 31, 1919)31, 1919)

The founders of pan-Turkism.

In the book:
Pan-Turkism
From Irredentism to Cooperation
by JACOB M. LANDAU

Link: http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/1998/greece/pant.htm
we read that:
The three founders of the pan-Turkism are:
1. Pan-Turkism was first called for in the 1860s by a Hungarian Zionist named Arminius Vambery, who had become an adviser to the sultan, but who secretly worked for Lord Palmerston and the British Foreign Office. Vambery later tried to broker a deal between the Zionist leader Theodor Herzl and the sultan, over the creation of Israel.

2. The Jewish French writer, Leon Cahun who formed and propagated pan-Turkism in his book:
Introduction al'Histoire de l'Asie, Turcs, et Mongols, des ...

3. Arthur L. David, a British Jew who in his book tried to give the Turks a superiority myth.

Young Turks:
In October 1843, twelve German-Jewish immigrants met on New York’s Lower East Side to help others like themselves. Pooling their ideas and their funds, they founded what would become the most enduring service organization for the Zionist identity in the United States. Its name—B’nai B’rith, "Children of the Covenant".

The founder of the Young Turks was a Jewish Italian B'nai B'rith official named Emmanuel Carasso. Carasso set up the Young Turk secret society in the 1890s in Salonika, then part of Turkey, and now part of Greece. Carasso was also the grand master of an Italian masonic lodge there, called "Macedonia Resurrected." The lodge was the headquarters of the Young Turks, and all the top Young Turk leadership were members.

Press
Another important area was the press. While in power, the Young Turks ran several newspapers, including The Young Turk, whose editor was none other than the Russian Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky had been educated as a young man in Italy. He later described Mazzini's ideas as the basis for the Zionist movement.

Jabotinsky arrived in Turkey shortly after the Young Turks seized power, to take over the paper. The paper was owned by a member of the Turkish cabinet, but it was funded by the Russian Zionist federation, and managed by B'nai B'rith. The editorial policy of the paper was overseen by a Dutch Zionist named Jacob Kann, who was the personal banker of the king and queen of the Netherlands.

Jabotinsky later created the most anti-Arab of all the Zionist organizations, the Irgun. His followers in Israel today are the ones most violently opposed to the Peres-Arafat peace accords.

Palmerston launches Young Turks to permanently control Middle East
by Joseph Brewda

Chorus: It is clear that the B'nai B'rith is an abject tool of British intelligence, run and directed to serve the interests of British imperial policy, and not the interests of Jews, nor even of B'nai B'rith members. The one peculiarity of B'nai B'rith in comparison to the other organizations launched by Palmerston and his three stooges, is that B'nai B'rith will be used for a wider variety of tasks in various countries and epochs. Therefore, the B'nai B'rith will be more permanent in its continuous organization than its Mazzinian counterparts, among which it stands out as the most specialized.

At the end of this century, one of the tasks assigned to the B'nai B'rith will be to direct, with the help of other Mazzinian agents, the dismemberment and partition of the Ottoman Empire. This is the state the British will call "the sick man of Europe." Historically, the Ottoman Empire offers surprising tolerance to its ethnic minorities. In order to blow up the empire, that will have to be changed into brutal racial oppression on the Mazzini model.

In 1862, during the time of the American Civil War, Mazzini will call on all his agents anywhere near Russia to foment revolt as a way of causing trouble for Alexander II. A bit later, with the help of Young Poland, Mazzini will start a Young Ottoman movement out of an Adam Smith translation project in Paris. In 1876, the Young Ottomans will briefly seize power in Constantinople. They will end a debt moratorium, pay off the British, declare free trade, and bring in Anglo-French bankers. They will be quickly overthrown; but the same network will soon make a comeback as the Young Turks, whose rule will finally destroy the Ottoman Empire.

In 1908, the Committee for Union and Progress, better known as the Young Turks, carried out a military coup, overthrew the sultan, and took power in the Ottoman Turkish empire. Once in power, they carried out a racist campaign of suppressing all non-Turkish minorities. Within four years, their anti-minority campaigns provoked the Balkan wars of 1912-13, among Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia. By 1914, these wars had triggered World War I, with Turkey becoming an ally of Germany.

Within seven years of coming into power, the Young Turks destroyed the Ottoman Empire. British intelligence had manipulated every nationalist group in the Empire, both the Young Turks, and their opponents.

When the Young Turks took power, the Ottoman Empire still included Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, and the Arabian Peninsula. The empire still included much of the Balkans: half of Greece, half of Bulgaria, half of Serbia, and all of Albania. Its land area was much bigger than present-day Turkey.

Although most of the population of the Ottoman empire were Turks, there were also large numbers of Slavs, Greeks, Arabs, Armenians, and Kurds. The Ottoman empire was a multi-ethnic empire, as were the nearby Austrian and Russian empires.

The Young Turks came to power waving the banner of democracy, but they soon picked up the banner of pan-Turkism. The idea was to form a state that included all the Turkic peoples of Asia. Since half of these people lived in Russia, this policy meant a collision with Russia.

But pan-Turkism was not created by the Young Turks or even in Turkey. It was first called for in the 1860s by a Hungarian Zionist named Arminius Vambery, who had become an adviser to the sultan, but who secretly worked for Lord Palmerston and the British Foreign Office. Vambery later tried to broker a deal between the Zionist leader Theodor Herzl and the sultan, over the creation of Israel.

The Young Turks also raised the banner of a pan-Islamic state. The idea was to bring all the Muslim peoples of the world into one empire, whether or not they were Turkish. This was another goal that meant conflict with Russia.

This idea was also not created by the Young Turks or in Turkey. It was first called for in the 1870s by an English nobleman named Wilfred Blunt, whose family had created the Bank of England. Blunt was a top British intelligence official who advocated using Islam to destroy Russia. Blunt's family later patronized the British KGB spy "Kim" Philby.

While the Young Turks were pushing the pan-Turkic and pan-Islamic movements, the British were also boosting all the anti-Turkish independence movements within the empire. They were supporting Arab nationalism, led by Lawrence of Arabia. They were supporting Serbian nationalism, led by the British agent Seton-Watson; Albanian nationalism, led by Lady Dunham; and Bulgarian nationalism, led by Noel Buxton. All of these peoples wanted to break free from the Ottoman Empire; but they also claimed the land of their neighbors.

For example, the British supported the idea of carving a "Greater Armenia" out of Turkey, Iran, and Russia. This "Greater Armenia" had no possibility of existing. None of the Great Powers, including Britain, really wanted it. The Kurds, who lived in the same area, didn't want it. But the British told the Armenians they supported their plans.

At the same time, the British were also telling the Kurds they supported the idea of "Greater Kurdistan." As the map shows, the proposed territories of "Greater Kurdistan" and "Greater Armenia" were almost identical.

In 1915, during World War I, the Kurds killed about 1 million Armenians. The Young Turks, who had been put in power by the British, used the Kurds (who thought they had the support of the British) to slaughter the Armenians (who also thought they had the support of the British). The British then used this genocide as a justification for trying to eliminate Turkey.

In fact, the next year, the British and French got together to plan the division of the Ottoman Empire between themselves. According to the plan, which only partially worked, Turkey itself would be reduced to a tiny area on the Black Sea. The rest of the empire would go to Britain and France.

B'nai B'rith and the Young Turks
But who were these "Young Turks," who so efficiently destroyed the empire?

The founder of the Young Turks was an Italian B'nai B'rith official named Emmanuel Carasso. Carasso set up the Young Turk secret society in the 1890s in Salonika, then part of Turkey, and now part of Greece. Carasso was also the grand master of an Italian masonic lodge there, called "Macedonia Resurrected." The lodge was the headquarters of the Young Turks, and all the top Young Turk leadership were members.

The Italian masonic lodges in the Ottoman Empire had been set up by a follower of Giuseppe Mazzini named Emmanuel Veneziano, who was also a leader of B'nai B'rith's European affiliate, the Universal Israelite Alliance.

During the Young Turk regime, Carasso continued to play a leading role. He met with the sultan, to tell him that he was overthrown. He was in charge of putting the sultan under house arrest. He ran the Young Turk intelligence network in the Balkans. And he was in charge of all food supplies in the empire during World War I.

Another important area was the press. While in power, the Young Turks ran several newspapers, including The Young Turk, whose editor was none other than the Russian Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky had been educated as a young man in Italy. He later described Mazzini's ideas as the basis for the Zionist movement.

Jabotinsky arrived in Turkey shortly after the Young Turks seized power, to take over the paper. The paper was owned by a member of the Turkish cabinet, but it was funded by the Russian Zionist federation, and managed by B'nai B'rith. The editorial policy of the paper was overseen by a Dutch Zionist named Jacob Kann, who was the personal banker of the king and queen of the Netherlands.

Jabotinsky later created the most anti-Arab of all the Zionist organizations, the Irgun. His followers in Israel today are the ones most violently opposed to the Peres-Arafat peace accords.

Another associate of Carasso was Alexander Helphand, better known as Parvus, the financier of the 1905 and 1917 Russian revolutions. Shortly after 1905, Parvus moved to Turkey, where he became the economics editor of another Young Turk newspaper called The Turkish Homeland. Parvus became a business partner of Carasso in the grain trade, and an arms supplier to the Turkish army during the Balkan wars. He later returned to Europe, to arrange the secret train that took Lenin back to Russia, in 1917.

Of course, there were also some Turks who helped lead the Young Turk movement. For example, Talaat Pasha. Talaat was the interior minister and dictator of the regime during World War I. He had been a member of Carasso's Italian masonic lodge in Salonika. One year prior to the 1908 coup, Talaat became the grand master of the Scottish Rite Masons in the Ottoman Empire. If you go to the Scottish Rite headquarters in Washington, D.C., you can find that most of the Young Turk leaders were officials in the Scottish Rite.

But who founded the Scottish Rite in Turkey? One of the founders was the grand master of the Scottish Rite in France, Adolph Cremieux, who also happened to be the head of the B'nai B'rith's European affiliate. Cremieux had been a leader of Mazzini's Young France, and helped put the British stooge Napoleon III into power.

The British controller: Aubrey Herbert
You can find the story of the Young Turks in the B'nai B'rith and Scottish Rite archives, but you cannot find it in history books. The best public account is found in the novel Greenmantle, whose hero is a British spy who led the Young Turks. Carasso appears in the novel under the name Carusso. The author, John Buchan, who was a British intelligence official in World War I, later identified the novel's hero as Aubrey Herbert.

In real life, Herbert was from one of the most powerful noble families in England. The family held no fewer than four earldoms. His repeated contact with Carasso and other Young Turk leaders is a matter of public record. Herbert's grandfather had been a patron of Mazzini and died leading revolutionary mobs in Italy in 1848. His father was in charge of British Masonry in the 1880s and 1890s. His uncle was the British ambassador to the United States. During World War I, Herbert was the top British spymaster in the Middle East. Lawrence of Arabia later identified Herbert as having been, at one time, the head of the Young Turks.

The U.S. State Department also played a role in the conspiracy. From 1890 through World War I, there were three U.S. ambassadors to Turkey: Oscar Straus, Abraham Elkin, and Henry Morgenthau. All three were friends of Simon Wolf. And all three were officials of B'nai B'rith.

Generally passed over in accounts of the Holocaust are the executions by the Jewish Fighting Organization of Jewish inhabitants of the Ghetto. At least a dozen Jews were executed, judged guilty of collaborating with the Nazis. Alfred Nossig, one of the executed, deserves notice in Holocaust studies as a negative role model. He is perhaps unique in having had a cameo role in the first genocide of this century, the Armenian genocide, and of playing a part in the Holocaust.

Nossig was appointed to the Judenrat in late l939 on the order of the S.S. and he reported to and advised the Gestapo. A talented and in some ways distinguished figure, he wrote the first Zionist pamphlet in Polish (1887). He helped found the pioneering Jewish Bureau of Statistics in Berlin (circa 1904). And in l9l5 he was in Istanbul, perhaps acting for the Germans and probably attempting to interest the Ottomans in Jewish immigration. Nossig had two interviews with Henry Morgenthau, the U.S. ambassador to the Ottoman empire and principal contemporary publicizer of the Armenian genocide. In his second interview, Nossig drew his chair close to Morgenthau's and in a "friendly and confidential manner" said: "I want to speak to you as one Jew to another . . . You are very active in the interest of the Armenians and I do not think you realize how unpopular you are becoming . . . You are just spoiling your opportunity for usefulness and running the risk your career will end ignominiously." (Jonathan Petrie)

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational...ar_2__no_9.html

Nossig remained a free-lance politician and early in 1915 renewed his activity. He approached both German and Austro-Hungarian Foreign Ministry as well as Ottoman Embassy in Berlin. Encouraged by their interest, he founded a Preparatory Committee for the Regulation of Jews in the East. Early in August he traveled to Constantinople, bringing with him several trucks of medical supplies as a gift for the Red Crescent, but the real purpose of his mission was to persuade the Porte of the worth of his plans. Through the good offices of Austro-Hungarian Embassy he was granted audience with the Sultan and the heir to the throne, Jussuf Izzedin. Enver Pasha, the Minister for War, Talaat Bey, the Minister of the Interior, and Halil Bey, the Foreign Minister, also received him and spoke appreciatively of the Jewish population. Elated by the assurances, Nossig approached leading Ottoman Jews, including deputy Emmanuel Carasso and, with the Porte's agreement, established Ottoman-Israelite Union. Its purpose was to foster an organized immigration of Jews from Eastern Europe to Turkey.

Hohenlohe noted about Nossig's arrangements:
"I assume that the Turkish Government will be prepared to permit Jewish immigration to Anatolia and Mesopotamia but it seams certain that it will not allow free immigration to Palestine, at any rate during next two years (1916-1917).... From a German standpoint it is desirable if a number of Jews who have to leave their old homes in Poland will immigrate to Turkey. This is particularly desirable since, following the expulsion and extermination of the Armenians, connection with European commerce has been broken over a wide area."

Baron Neurath who, following Hohenlohe's return to Berlin, acted as German Charge d'Affaires, also supported Nossig's plan. However, in order to ensure its success he suggested that Ottoman-Israelite Union should embrace all the jewish groups: neutrals and the Zionists, liberals and the Orthodox of all nationalities. [Notwithstanding great pressure from other Jewish groups], Neurath continued to support Nossig. Lichtheim attributed this inconsistency to the conflicting pressres under which Neurath was laboring. On the one hand there was a standing order from Zimmerman which it was impossible for him to ignore. On the other hand Neurath had to take into account the position adopted by Hohenlohe, his immediate supervisor. Opinion at the embassy was also divided. While Weber staunchly supported Lichtheim, Goppert sided with Nossig. As Goppert was senior in rank, Weber could not override him, and on October 21, 1915 Lichtheim ventured finally to bring his case directly before Goppert. The debate was long and ardious. Lichtheim argued that Nossig's project was not feasible; it had no support among the Jews AND IT WAS ILLUSORY TO EXPECT THAT THOSE FROM EASTERN EUROPE WOULD BE WILLING TO SETTLE IN ARMENIA. But to no avail. GOPPERT STUBBORNLY CLUNG TO HIS VIEW THAT NOSSIG'S PLAN (REPATRIATION TO ARMENIA) HAD A BETTER CHANCE OF IMPLEMINTATION THAN THAT OF THE ZIONISTS (REPATRIATION TO PALESTINE).

Germany, Turkey and Zionism, 1897-1918, Isaiah Friedman DS149.F884 1977 pp. 261-264
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