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Old 26.01.2006, 18:47   #16
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

ох, чувствую, скоро придется вернуться...
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Old 26.01.2006, 18:59   #17
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

народ, кто нибудь может привести статью в божеский вид? читаю ее, она понятна мне, но глазами человека несведущего - сплошная неразбериха.
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Old 26.01.2006, 21:50   #18
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Возможно есть резон в переводе объяснить западным читателям, менее сведущим в истории региона, об отношениях Турции и Азербайджана?
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Old 26.01.2006, 23:36   #19
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ Xelgen ]
Возможно есть резон в переводе объяснить западным читателям, менее сведущим в истории региона, об отношениях Турции и Азербайджана?
dostatochno napomnit', chto "v solidarnost'" az-u turciya uje kotoriy god blokiruet armeniyu. ob etom v evropax v kurse i davyat na turciyu po povodu.
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Old 27.01.2006, 00:17   #20
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ Xelgen ]
Возможно есть резон в переводе объяснить западным читателям, менее сведущим в истории региона, об отношениях Турции и Азербайджана?
да, блин, не только. нужно объяснить природу сложных отношений армении с азербайджаном, армении с турцией, о блокаде армении вышеназванными странами. одним словом, нужно абстрагироваться от того, что нам известно и написать все понятным языком.
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Old 27.01.2006, 10:51   #21
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrach_Techie
ок! тогда я начну ..
Ответ от Марины положительный. Единственная просьба, ссылаться на ГА.
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Old 27.01.2006, 11:14   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOB
Ответ от Марины положительный. Единственная просьба, ссылаться на ГА.
OK. HOB jan! ja tut nemnogo zanjat bil - vobshem na translate.ru skinul shas sizhu podpravljaju chtobi ne poluchilsja esperanto ... jest predlozhenije rabotat vsem vmeste - vot pervije paru paragrafov iz statji - prosba dobavljat svoi kommenti QUOTE-om - tak bistreje pouchitsa poslednij variant --- kritkujte (osobenno perevodchiki) sovetujte kak mozhno lucshe tolko prosba pomnit chto otxodit ot teksta ne stoit tak kak message uzhe sovershenno inoi poluchitsa ....

vot pervaja chast (shas sledom p[odospejet i vtoraja chast)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Whose Interests Does the International Crisis Group Lobby UNDER THE MASK OF INTERMEDIARIES?

The First CLAUSE: all the facts presented below are taken from open Internet resources.

The SECOND CLAUSE: in view of the fact that the newspaper area is limited, we do not provide references to primary sources of the information; however the editors are ready to present these electronic addresses to any interested party.

The THIRD CLAUSE: the given article cites only the most eloquent data; however, at our disposal, we have also interesting information about other members of Executive committee of the International Crisis Group.

So, the International Crisis Group. In the second half of the last year, this name became suddenly gaudy in the messages on the course of settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. From the very beginning, the representatives of the group behaved themselves somewhat in a very abrupt and confident manner; by having, in a short period of time with rather originality, "understood" the long-term bloody conflict, they presented a report with recommendations. However, this has not set them at rest, moreover, official statements of the representatives of ICG today get more and more imperative, categorical and bear even provocative character, causing quite clear irritation and aversion for people who has been living tens of years in conditions of not settled conflict and have transferred inconceivable emotional experience, sufferings and victims for the sake of its fair resolution.

What is the International Crisis Group affording today to act actually on behalf of the government of Armenia and to give rather doubtful recipes for the settlement of the conflict? Data about the organization can be derived from its Internet site. At the same place, at www. crisisgroup. org, rather curious threads lead to people standing up for this organization and, as a matter of fact, defining its strategy and tactics dubbed in afterwards by frazers and deletroses. But again, enough of that rhetoric let us pass to the facts.

There are 59 registered people in the structure of Executive committee of ICG. The data here concerning its heads and some rather influential members has been successfully extracted from bowels of the Internet.

MORTON ABRAMOVITZ, one of the founders of ICG: Former US Assistant Secretary of State, Former US Ambassador to Turkey. A citation from the article in "Hurriet", entitled "Turkish soldiers keep the peace in Cyprus ": “As a member of the International Crisis Group, Morton Abramowitz has visited Ankara. During the visit, he declared: “While Turkish soldiers remain in Cyprus, the violence there is impossible".

ZBIGNEV BRZHEZINSKI, that same former US National Security Adviser to president, among other things, also a member of Honorable Council of Advisors of the American-Azerbaijan chamber of commerce (AASS) - an organization created under the wing of American-Turkish Council. Namely, Brzhezinski, as is well known, visited Azerbaijan as US Presidential Emissary in order to promote construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline.

STEPHEN SOLARTZ, also one of the founders and vice-president of ICG. One of the most influential lobbyists in the USA actively lobbies Turkish interests. The citation from a site of the Armenian National Committee of America (ANKA): “Continuing efforts on denying (means the Genocide of Armenians. - M.G.), the Turkish government has employed former congressmen as lobbyists of their interests. (...) Stephen Solarz has been paid 400 000 dollars." The purpose: sharply stir to activity the work of opposition of the Congress against an official recognition of the Genocide of Armenians by the US.

Another citation from the “Time-Europe” magazine: “…The Turkish embassy in Washington has signed a contract for $1, 8 million with three top-lobbyists.” Among them, the magazine also names Solarz. The purpose: “to use reasonable efforts to have Turkey make good impression.” Besides that, Stephen Solartz is a member of the American-Turkish Council. As well as the owner of a luxurious house in Turkey, on the coast of Mediterranean sea. According to ANKA, Solarz likes to playfully call himself “the congressman from Istanbul ". Detail: Z.Brzhezinski and S.Solartz are the co-chairmen of "the American Committee for the Peace in the Chechen Republic” - an organization supporting the Chechen insurgents.

Among the members of Executive committee of ICG is also ERSIN ARIOGLU, a deputy of parliament of Turkey. No comment.

UTA ZAPF - chairman of the subcommittee of the Bundestag of Germany on demilitarization, control and non-distribution of weapons. A member of the Christian Democrat party of Germany, an active supporter and lobbyist for the acceptance of Turkey as a member of EU, repeatedly participated and acted with ardent speeches at conferences organized by Turks. In a bulletin of the Berlin office “Associations of Turkish manufacturers and businessmen" (lobbying interests of Turkish business in Europe) from October 2003 - January 2004, it is said about active contacts with this frau, judging by her further activity - rather successful. She was the primary lecturer at conferences “Relations of Turkey with Germany and the European Union “organized by Turkey in Antalya and at a number of other forums. She is a chairman of Germany-Turkey parliamentary group.

Among the members of Executive committee of ICG, there are a number of staunch defenders of accession of Turkey to EU. Among them, for example, a member of Euro Parliament, a member of the organized in October 2005 "independent" EU commission on Turkey, EMMA BONINO - on her personal web site there is a special section devoted to her active lobbyist work for accession of Turkey to EU (the motto: " Turkey in EU - Now! "), a journalist and an English writer William Showcross - his name is mentioned beside the names of those who unleashed the war in Iraq. In general, in the Executive committee there are many known international "hawks" - people provoking and lobbying military conflicts. Beside the English journalist, it is, for example, KENNET ADELMAN, also a member of the already mentioned "American Committee for the Peace in the Chechen Republic." A little bit strange for an organization positioning itself as peace-making, isn’t it? As well as the members of the already mentioned "independent" commission of EU on Turkey, active pro-turkish lobbyists - STALEMATE COKE, BRONISLAV GEREMEK, as well as the chairman of this commission MARTTI AHTISAARI. One more name: GEORGE MITCHELL – the honorable chairman of ICG, according to publications in the western mass media, is involved in the international swindle on attempt of privatization of the State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (much-talked-of Victor Kozheny's case").

KARLA HILLZ - director of Shevron Corporation from 1993, its leading director from 2004. Just to remind: the "Shevron" oil company is a big friend to Azerbaijan. Shevron-Texaco is one of the sponsors of ICG. In Armenia, the representative of the International Crisis Group is the former press-secretary of Levon Ter-Petrosyan.
And finally, last year the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Turkey appeared in the list of numerous sponsors of ICG.

The answer to the question that is in the heading of the given article, I believe, is clear to everyone. Are there still any other questions?

Marina GRIGORYAN - Golos Armenii
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http://texneg.livejournal.com

Last edited by Hrach_Techie; 27.01.2006 at 15:26.
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Old 27.01.2006, 15:28   #23
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---------------------------------------------------------
Whose Interests Does the International Crisis Group Lobby UNDER THE MASK OF INTERMEDIARIES?

The First CLAUSE: all the facts presented below are taken from open Internet resources.

The SECOND CLAUSE: in view of the fact that the newspaper area is limited, we do not provide references to primary sources of the information; however the editors are ready to present these electronic addresses to any interested party.

The THIRD CLAUSE: the given article cites only the most eloquent data; however, at our disposal, we have also interesting information about other members of Executive committee of the International Crisis Group.

So, the International Crisis Group. In the second half of the last year, this name became suddenly gaudy in the messages on the course of settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. From the very beginning, the representatives of the group behaved themselves somewhat in a very abrupt and confident manner; by having, in a short period of time with rather originality, "understood" the long-term bloody conflict, they presented a report with recommendations. However, this has not set them at rest, moreover, official statements of the representatives of ICG today get more and more imperative, categorical and bear even provocative character, causing quite clear irritation and aversion for people who has been living tens of years in conditions of not settled conflict and have transferred inconceivable emotional experience, sufferings and victims for the sake of its fair resolution.

What is the International Crisis Group affording today to act actually on behalf of the government of Armenia and to give rather doubtful recipes for the settlement of the conflict? Data about the organization can be derived from its Internet site. At the same place, at www. crisisgroup. org, rather curious threads lead to people standing up for this organization and, as a matter of fact, defining its strategy and tactics dubbed in afterwards by frazers and deletroses. But again, enough of that rhetoric let us pass to the facts.

There are 59 registered people in the structure of Executive committee of ICG. The data here concerning its heads and some rather influential members has been successfully extracted from bowels of the Internet.

MORTON ABRAMOVITZ, one of the founders of ICG: Former US Assistant Secretary of State, Former US Ambassador to Turkey. A citation from the article in "Hurriet", entitled "Turkish soldiers keep the peace in Cyprus ": “As a member of the International Crisis Group, Morton Abramowitz has visited Ankara. During the visit, he declared: “While Turkish soldiers remain in Cyprus, the violence there is impossible".

ZBIGNEV BRZHEZINSKI, that same former US National Security Adviser to president, among other things, also a member of Honorable Council of Advisors of the American-Azerbaijan chamber of commerce (AASS) - an organization created under the wing of American-Turkish Council. Namely, Brzhezinski, as is well known, visited Azerbaijan as US Presidential Emissary in order to promote construction of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline.

STEPHEN SOLARTZ, also one of the founders and vice-president of ICG. One of the most influential lobbyists in the USA actively lobbies Turkish interests. The citation from a site of the Armenian National Committee of America (ANKA): “Continuing efforts on denying (means the Genocide of Armenians. - M.G.), the Turkish government has employed former congressmen as lobbyists of their interests. (...) Stephen Solarz has been paid 400 000 dollars." The purpose: sharply stir to activity the work of opposition of the Congress against an official recognition of the Genocide of Armenians by the US.

Another citation from the “Time-Europe” magazine: “…The Turkish embassy in Washington has signed a contract for $1, 8 million with three top-lobbyists.” Among them, the magazine also names Solarz. The purpose: “to use reasonable efforts to have Turkey make good impression.” Besides that, Stephen Solartz is a member of the American-Turkish Council. As well as the owner of a luxurious house in Turkey, on the coast of Mediterranean sea. According to ANKA, Solarz likes to playfully call himself “the congressman from Istanbul ". Detail: Z.Brzhezinski and S.Solartz are the co-chairmen of "the American Committee for the Peace in the Chechen Republic” - an organization supporting the Chechen insurgents.

Among the members of Executive committee of ICG is also ERSIN ARIOGLU, a deputy of parliament of Turkey. No comment.

UTA ZAPF - chairman of the subcommittee of the Bundestag of Germany on demilitarization, control and non-distribution of weapons. A member of the Christian Democrat party of Germany, an active supporter and lobbyist for the acceptance of Turkey as a member of EU, repeatedly participated and acted with ardent speeches at conferences organized by Turks. In a bulletin of the Berlin office “Associations of Turkish manufacturers and businessmen" (lobbying interests of Turkish business in Europe) from October 2003 - January 2004, it is said about active contacts with this frau, judging by her further activity - rather successful. She was the primary lecturer at conferences “Relations of Turkey with Germany and the European Union “organized by Turkey in Antalya and at a number of other forums. She is a chairman of Germany-Turkey parliamentary group.

Among the members of Executive committee of ICG, there are a number of staunch defenders of accession of Turkey to EU. Among them, for example, a member of Euro Parliament, a member of the organized in October 2005 "independent" EU commission on Turkey, EMMA BONINO - on her personal web site there is a special section devoted to her active lobbyist work for accession of Turkey to EU (the motto: " Turkey in EU - Now! "), a journalist and an English writer William Showcross - his name is mentioned beside the names of those who unleashed the war in Iraq. In general, in the Executive committee there are many known international "hawks" - people provoking and lobbying military conflicts. Beside the English journalist, it is, for example, KENNET ADELMAN, also a member of the already mentioned "American Committee for the Peace in the Chechen Republic." A little bit strange for an organization positioning itself as peace-making, isn’t it? As well as the members of the already mentioned "independent" commission of EU on Turkey, active pro-turkish lobbyists - STALEMATE COKE, BRONISLAV GEREMEK, as well as the chairman of this commission MARTTI AHTISAARI. One more name: GEORGE MITCHELL – the honorable chairman of ICG, according to publications in the western mass media, is involved in the international swindle on attempt of privatization of the State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (much-talked-of Victor Kozheny's case").

KARLA HILLZ - director of Shevron Corporation from 1993, its leading director from 2004. Just to remind: the "Shevron" oil company is a big friend to Azerbaijan. Shevron-Texaco is one of the sponsors of ICG. In Armenia, the representative of the International Crisis Group is the former press-secretary of Levon Ter-Petrosyan.
And finally, last year the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Turkey appeared in the list of numerous sponsors of ICG.

The answer to the question that is in the heading of the given article, I believe, is clear to everyone. Are there still any other questions?

Marina GRIGORYAN - Golos Armenii
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Old 27.01.2006, 15:34   #24
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

вот тут вордовская версия

Last edited by Hrach_Techie; 18.04.2006 at 12:01.
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Old 27.01.2006, 20:50   #25
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

predlagayu sntay' eto:
The SECOND CLAUSE: in view of the fact that the newspaper area is limited, we do not provide references to primary sources of the information; however the editors are ready to present these electronic addresses to any interested party.

ne ser'ezno. ne dla zapadnogo chitatel'ya. avtor govoril j pri trebovanii dadut vse ssilki, vot potrebuem i postavim v konce as references
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Old 27.01.2006, 23:51   #26
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOB
Ответ от Марины положительный. Единственная просьба, ссылаться на ГА.
Ашот, а можно попросить Марину дополнить статью. Сделать ее такой, чтобы несведущий о конфликте человек смог в ней разобраться и почерпнуть хотя бы что-то. Иначе, статье этой - грош цена.
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Old 28.01.2006, 07:57   #27
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Child
народ, кто нибудь может привести статью в божеский вид? читаю ее, она понятна мне, но глазами человека несведущего - сплошная неразбериха.
помимо линейного текста было бы неплохо сделать для начала небольшую веб страничку

тогда дополнения можно было бы делать по ходу дела

могу помочь с местом на западном сервере

P.S.
объективно, мало-ресурсной Армении просто нереально противостоять "сильным мира сего"
но, с другой стороны, невольно напрашивается аналогия с другим неравным противостоянием в самих Штатах - между относительно неимущими демократами и консерваторами
несмотря на проигрыш на последних выборах, демократы очень укрепились
если снять пеночку либерального экстрима, у них есть свой поинт и СМИ в штатах на 80% контролируются именно демократами
особенно выделяется внешнеполитическая активность. Ключевое имя здесь - Джимми Картер (бывший президент, лауреат Нобел. премии)
он делает практически все наоборот властям, тем же "нефтянникам" и прочей бжезинщине
хотя идеологически и финансово он повязан с Соросом, тем не менее надо всяческим образом СРОЧНО пригласить Картера в Армению
не понимаю, каким местом думают в нашем МИДе
помимо разных там Куб, Венесуэл и Эфиоп, Картер периодически бывает в Палестине, пару часов лета от Еревана (кажется был и в Грузии)
пока петух клюнет в задницу стратегов МИДа - пройдут годы
Картера пригласить могут наши НПО (обществ. орг-ции) СЕГОДНЯ
у нашей энергоёмкой экс-обмундсменши после отставки накопилось много энергии - поручить бы ей этот проект

слова, сказанные Картером в бытность президентом (May 16, 1978, White House):
"It is generally not known in the world that, in the years preceding 1916, there was a concerted effort made to eliminate all the Armenian people, probably one of the greatest tragedies that ever befell any group. And there weren't any Nuremberg trials."

P.S.S. (regnum - Az)
В Страсбурге розданы книги "Правда о Карабахе"
Делегаты от Азербайджана в Парламентской Ассамблее Совета Европы отправили представительствам стран-членов организации образцы подготовленных по инициативе президента Фонда Гейдара Алиева Мехрибан Алиевой книги "Правда о Карабахе", календаря "Природа Азербайджана", а также фильмов "Ходжалинская трагедия", "Армянский террор" и "Жизнь детей-переселенцев" на английском языке. Об этом сообщил азербайджанский государственный телеканал АзТВ, подчеркнув, что "книга, календарь и фильмы отражают всю правду о Карабахе".
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Old 28.01.2006, 08:08   #28
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlight
predlagayu sntay' eto:
The SECOND CLAUSE: in view of the fact that the newspaper area is limited, we do not provide references to primary sources of the information; however the editors are ready to present these electronic addresses to any interested party.

ne ser'ezno. ne dla zapadnogo chitatel'ya. avtor govoril j pri trebovanii dadut vse ssilki, vot potrebuem i postavim v konce as references
согласен, хотя у вас опечаточка " sntay' " - это наверно " snyat' "

оффтопный P.S.
кто-то вызывался к барьеру - когда сыграем в шахматы?
мои кони уже топчут землю
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Old 28.01.2006, 09:19   #29
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

Полностью согласен с FC
Нам-то все понятно
А подразумеваемая целевая аудитория в лучшем случае не в курсе конфликта, в худшем - дезинформирована
Посмотрите доклады ICG
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3652&l=3
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3740&l=3
Навязывается мнение об армянах как о сепаратистах, агрессорах и захватчиках. Ни слова об истоках конфликта, его истории, откровенно-агрессивных выкриков официального Баку, вандализме в Нахиджеване, отсутствии законодательной базы в Азербайджане для предлагаемого референдума.

ПС. Однако, как кстати подгадали с нашей новой конституцией, в частности с пунктом о том что президент не может нести ответственность за принятые политические решения.
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Old 28.01.2006, 12:15   #30
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Default Re: Чьи интересы лоббирует Международная кризисная группа

какие же, однако, сидят кретины в нашем миде. аж зло берет. чем они там, *****, целый день занимаются? мудаки, недоучки.
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