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Old 27.06.2002, 04:53   #31
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2 Shai

Pochitay Makiavelli ili Tit Livij i uvidish, chto teoriya ochen' dazhe primenima, deystviya lyudej vpolne mozhno predugadat' i teoria politiki sovershenno ne pomenyalas' za poslednie 3000 let.

Da, chut' ne zabyl, Soon Tszi "Isskustvo vojny" – to zhe iz serii vechnyx knig...
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Old 27.06.2002, 15:34   #32
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Господа!

Это конечно здорово, что вы все такие начитанные и умные. А по существу можно что-нить?
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Old 27.06.2002, 17:47   #33
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>>>Griffon

A po suti uje nechevo dobavit.
V sleduyushem godu vse mi idyom na prezidentskie vibori i golosuem za Kocharyana za neimenyem drugoy luchshey alternativi.
I s nadejdoy na to chto v sleduyushem 5-letye svoevo pravlenie gospodin Kocharyan budet rabotat takimi je tempami kak rabotaet seychas.
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Old 27.06.2002, 20:29   #34
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I tak.....ja to dymaju,cto vsjo to,cto t@ napisal
ocen' taktichno,no ne ocen' i pravil'no po moemu mneniju...
Ja soglasna,cto [email protected]@ vsegda necestno provodjatsja
v Armenii, v toj strane,gde nujen takoj prezident,[email protected]
b@ smog soderjat' vsjo to,cto ostalos' ot nas....toest' ja xocy
skazat',cto nas malo,cto i trebuet,ctob prezident sobljudal
[email protected] mer@ dlja spasenija i dojivanija nashej stran@......
M@ tak je ocen' xorosho znaem,cto u nas nikogda ne [email protected]
xorohij prezident,a lucshego nety i sejcas,no iz etix vsex
,,[email protected],, tol'ko KOCARJAN dostoen stat' snogo nasim prezidentom
i ja uverenna,cto eto tak i bydet.....T@ tol'ko podumaj_kto krome
Kocarjana mojet stat' [email protected] [email protected]????
Nu voz'mi naprimer Levon Ter Petrosjan....po tvoemu on cto to
xoroshoe sdelal dlja nas,krome togo,cto obakral nas i napolnjal
svoj [email protected] jivydok za scjot nashix deneg.....ne tak li???
A Kocarjan,on [email protected] poka ne mere ocen' mnogo fabrik,[email protected]
[email protected]' ocen' davno i ix vsex velel [email protected]' etot Petrosjan....
Kogda on [email protected] prezidentom,esli pomnish' i nas ne [email protected] ne vod@ i sveta...
m@ jili v ady...da ved'???A Kocarjan dlja menja vovse ne ideal i daje ne
blizok k idealu,no poka ne mere on delaet sejcas vsjo,ctob nash gorod
[email protected] ,stal eshjo [email protected] i on etogo dobilsja....za eti god@ nash gorod
vo mnogom izmenilsja i stal ocen' [email protected]..no on ne tol'ko eto delal,on
davol'no taki vedjot normal'nuju politiku.....no vot eshjo cto_esli on stanet
snogo prezidentom,on doljen izmenit'sja ocen' i ponjat',cto ostanovka knecemu...
Nujno podnimat'sja vsjo [email protected] i [email protected]..toest' on doljen [email protected]' eshjo lucshim.....!!!!!!
A verju li ja v cestnost' podshjota golosov na [email protected],skaju,cto net konechno.....
Nu vot i vsjo...nadejus' ne morocil te golovu....
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Old 28.06.2002, 19:33   #35
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I tak.....ja to dymaju,cto vsjo to,cto t@ napisal
ocen' taktichno,no ne ocen' i pravil'no po moemu mneniju...
Ja soglasna,cto [email protected]@ vsegda necestno provodjatsja
v Armenii, v toj strane,gde nujen takoj prezident,[email protected]
b@ smog soderjat' vsjo to,cto ostalos' ot nas....toest' ja xocy
skazat',cto nas malo,cto i trebuet,ctob prezident sobljudal
[email protected] mer@ dlja spasenija i dojivanija nashej stran@......
M@ tak je ocen' xorosho znaem,cto u nas nikogda ne [email protected]
xorohij prezident,a lucshego nety i sejcas,no iz etix vsex
,,[email protected],, tol'ko KOCARJAN dostoen stat' snogo nasim prezidentom
i ja uverenna,cto eto tak i bydet.....T@ tol'ko podumaj_kto krome
Kocarjana mojet stat' [email protected] [email protected]????
Nu voz'mi naprimer Levon Ter Petrosjana....po tvoemu on cto to
xoroshoe sdelal dlja nas,krome togo,cto obakral nas i napolnjal
svoj [email protected] jivydok za scjot nashix deneg.....ne tak li???
A Kocarjan,on [email protected] poka ne mere ocen' mnogo fabrik,[email protected]
[email protected]' ocen' davno i ix vsex velel [email protected]' etot Petrosjan....
Kogda on [email protected] prezidentom,esli pomnish' y nas ne [email protected] ne vod@,ne sveta...
m@ jili v ady...da ved'???A Kocarjan dlja menja vovse ne ideal i daje ne
blizok k idealu,no poka ne mere on delaet sejcas vsjo,ctob nash gorod
[email protected] ,stal eshjo [email protected] i on etogo dobilsja....za eti god@ nash gorod
vo mnogom izmenilsja i stal ocen' [email protected]..no on ne tol'ko straitel'stvom zanimalsja,on
davol'no taki vedjot normal'nuju politiku.....no vot eshjo cto_esli on stanet
snogo prezidentom,on doljen izmenit'sja ocen' i ponjat',cto ostanovka knecemu...
Nujno podnimat'sja vsjo [email protected] i [email protected]..toest' on doljen [email protected]' eshjo lucshim.....!!!!!!
A verju li ja v cestnost' podshjota golosov na [email protected],skaju,cto net konechno.....
Nu vot i vsjo...nadejus' ne morocil te golovu....
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Old 29.06.2002, 00:58   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by groul:
2 Shai

Pochitay Makiavelli ili Tit Livij i uvidish, chto teoriya ochen' dazhe primenima, deystviya lyudej vpolne mozhno predugadat'

Ya by skazal tak: deystviya kyudey mozhno predugadat, no eto zavisit ot obstoyatelstv. Ved' nikto ne zhdal, chto v oktyabrye 1996 narod vosstanet protiv togdashengo prezidenta. Ya uveren, chto etogo ne zhdali dazhe KGB. Eto sluchilos ochen' neozhidanno. V politike bol'shinstvo peremen sluchayutsa vot tak neozhidanno. No chto tut interesnoe: to, chto ya dumayu eto sluchilos ne spontanno!!

i teoria politiki sovershenno ne pomenyalas' za poslednie 3000 let.

Ne mogu nichego skazat' po etomu povodu. ne ochen mnogo izuchal istoriyu politiki. teoriya-to ne izmenilas, a practica?

Da, chut' ne zabyl, Soon Tszi "Isskustvo vojny" – to zhe iz serii vechnyx knig...
Spasibo za bibliographiyu. Ya predpochitayu psychology i biology. Eto bolee estestvenno intellectualno.
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Old 29.06.2002, 01:23   #37
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Originally posted by Lina:

Quote:
M@ tak je ocen' xorosho znaem,cto u nas nikogda ne [email protected]
xorohij prezident
Est' takaya aksioma:
"Kakov pop - takov i prixod. Mojno i naoborot"
Eshe odna citata:
"Naciya dostojna imeyushegosya pravitelya"

Quote:
Nu voz'mi naprimer Levon Ter Petrosjana....po tvoemu on cto to
xoroshoe sdelal dlja nas,krome togo,cto obakral nas i napolnjal
svoj [email protected] jivydok za scjot nashix deneg.....ne tak li???
A pochemu vy schitaete, chto g-n Ter Petrosyan doljen byl zabotit'sya o vas?
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Old 29.06.2002, 04:03   #38
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Quote:
M@ tak je ocen' xorosho znaem,cto u nas nikogda ne [email protected]
xorohij prezident
Est' takaya aksioma:
"Kakov pop - takov i prixod. Mojno i naoborot"
Eshe odna citata:
"Naciya dostojna imeyushegosya pravitelya"

Da naciya dostoina, no esli pravitel ploxoy vsyo taki, nado ob etom govorit obyazatelno, a ne molchat, kak u nas. A govorit nuzhno ne bessmylsenno, a nuzhno zanimatsya etim v seryoz.

[/QUOTE]A pochemu vy schitaete, chto g-n Ter Petrosyan doljen byl zabotit'sya o vas?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Chyort vozmi, a dlya chego ya ego vybral-to? A kto inoy dolzhen zabotitsya obo mne?
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Old 29.06.2002, 04:11   #39
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lina:
[QB]I tak.....ja to dymaju,cto vsjo to,cto t@ napisal
ocen' taktichno,no ne ocen' i pravil'no po moemu mneniju...
Ja soglasna,cto [email protected]@ vsegda necestno provodjatsja
v Armenii, v toj strane,gde nujen takoj prezident,[email protected]
b@ smog soderjat' vsjo to,cto ostalos' ot nas....toest' ja xocy
skazat',cto nas malo,cto i trebuet,ctob prezident sobljudal
[email protected] mer@ dlja spasenija i dojivanija nashej stran@......

A chto sobstvenno my trebuem? Ya dumayu, Lina, my trebuem practicheski nichego. A esli kto i xot chto to trebuet, to manera trebovaniya ne sovsem chto nado.

no iz etix vsex
,,[email protected],, tol'ko KOCARJAN dostoen stat' snogo nasim prezidentom

Nu a yesli schitat Kocharyana menee tupym vsyo taki, ty opyat dumaesh chto on dolzhen stat prezidntom?

A Kocarjan dlja menja vovse ne ideal i daje ne
blizok k idealu,no poka ne mere on delaet sejcas vsjo,ctob nash gorod
[email protected] ,stal eshjo [email protected] i on etogo dobilsja....za eti god@ nash gorod
vo mnogom izmenilsja i stal ocen' [email protected]..no on ne tol'ko straitel'stvom zanimalsja,

Eto stroitel'stvo vovse ne odobryaetsya arxitektorami-grodostraoitelyami.

on
davol'no taki vedjot normal'nuju politiku.....no vot eshjo cto_esli on stanet
snogo prezidentom,on doljen izmenit'sja ocen' i ponjat',cto ostanovka knecemu...

kak ty dumaesh, chto samoye glavnoe, chto on dolzhen budet sdelat' esli budet vybran presidentom?
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Old 29.06.2002, 05:24   #40
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Originally posted by shai:
Quote:
Da naciya dostoina, no esli pravitel ploxoy vsyo taki, nado ob etom govorit obyazatelno, a ne molchat, kak u nas. A govorit nuzhno ne bessmylsenno, a nuzhno zanimatsya etim v seryoz.
Ni sekundy ne somnevayus' v dostoinstvax nacii. Bolee togo, soglasen s tem, chto delat' chto-to nado, no chto?

Quote:
Chyort vozmi, a dlya chego ya ego vybral-to? A kto inoy dolzhen zabotitsya obo mne?
A ty, chto je, vser'ez nadeyalsya na to, chto on budet zabotit'sya o tebe? Ves'ma optimistichnyj vzglyad.
IMHO, nikto, nikogda, ne budet zabotit'sya o tebe, krome tebya samogo. Dumayu, dokazyvat' ne stoit....
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Old 29.06.2002, 19:58   #41
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To Tumanyan
[/QUOTE]Ni sekundy ne somnevayus' v dostoinstvax nacii. Bolee togo, soglasen s tem, chto delat' chto-to nado, no chto?

A vot eto sprashivayut vse, VSE. No pochemu my ne znaem chto nam nuzhno delat' Eto nedopustimo. My ne znaem chto nam nuzhno? ili my ne ponimaem chego my xotim?

[/QUOTE]A ty, chto je, vser'ez nadeyalsya na to, chto on budet zabotit'sya o tebe? Ves'ma optimistichnyj vzglyad.
IMHO, nikto, nikogda, ne budet zabotit'sya o tebe, krome tebya samogo. Dumayu, dokazyvat' ne stoit....[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well, ty tak v pryamom smysle i prinyal(a) moi slova) Konechno, esli ya vybirayu rukovoditelya, on dolzhen pozabotisya obo mne - ved' eto smysl vsex vyborov i prochee. No konechno zabotitsya obo mne on dolzhen ne na personalnom urovne, kak ty vosprinyal(a). On obyazuetsya xoroshim pravleniem respubliki, gde ya zhivu. A pod xoroshim pravleniem nuzhno ponyat udovletvoreniye samix fundamentalnix nuzhd. Vot tak!

p.s. Sorry for prefixal uncertainties: I don't make out your avatar clearly.
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Old 02.07.2002, 22:54   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by shai:
My ne znaem chto nam nuzhno? ili my ne ponimaem chego my xotim?
Ya by ne govoril za vsex.... Te kto znayut - deayut.

Quote:
Well, ty tak v pryamom smysle i prinyal(a) moi slova)
Otnyud'. Ya rassmatrivayu tvoi slova kak primer myshleniya srednestatisticheskogo grajdanina.

Quote:
Konechno, esli ya vybirayu rukovoditelya, on dolzhen pozabotisya obo mne - ved' eto smysl vsex vyborov i prochee.
Otnyud'... Zabota o blage izbiratelej - neobyazatel'no pervichnaya cel' izbrannika.

Quote:
No konechno zabotitsya obo mne on dolzhen ne na personalnom urovne, kak ty vosprinyal(a).
Opyat'-taki, ya rassmatrival ne tebya konkretno, a krug lyudej s podobnymi tvoim interesami, vzglyadami, i.t.d.

Quote:
On obyazuetsya xoroshim pravleniem respubliki, gde ya zhivu. A pod xoroshim pravleniem nuzhno ponyat udovletvoreniye samix fundamentalnix nuzhd. Vot tak!
Vot v etom i sostoit oshibka bol'shinstva izbiratelej, nedeyushixsya na dobrogo dyadyu, kotoryj oblegchit im jizn'..... Podumaj s takoj pozicii: "A est' li u menya garantii, chto izbrannik ne peremenit svoego otnosheniya k provozglashaemym lozungam posle vyborov? Est' li kakaya-libo sila, sposobnaya zastavit' ego sledovat' punktam svoej predvybornoj programmy?"
Otvet na eti 2 voprosa i est' klyuch k razgadke "ploxix prezidentov"

Quote:
p.s. Sorry for prefixal uncertainties: I don't make out your avatar clearly.
[/QUOTE]
Never mind...
Just in case: I'm male. My name is Hovhannes Tumanyan (no joke, I'm serious)
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Old 03.07.2002, 04:45   #43
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To Tumanyan
[/QUOTE]Otnyud'... Zabota o blage izbiratelej - neobyazatel'no pervichnaya cel' izbrannika.

Ya dumayu inache. Ya dumayu pervichnaya, tolko eto na practike sluchaetsa dovolno redko, v smysle neposredstvennix shagov, napravlennyx na blago izbirateley.

[/QUOTE]Vot v etom i sostoit oshibka bol'shinstva izbiratelej, nedeyushixsya na dobrogo dyadyu, kotoryj oblegchit im jizn'..... Podumaj s takoj pozicii: "A est' li u menya garantii, chto izbrannik ne peremenit svoego otnosheniya k provozglashaemym lozungam posle vyborov? Est' li kakaya-libo sila, sposobnaya zastavit' ego sledovat' punktam svoej predvybornoj programmy?"
Otvet na eti 2 voprosa i est' klyuch k razgadke "ploxix prezidentov"

Eto ne oshibka izbirateley. Eto odna iz mnogix "negativnyx" chastey politiki/pravleniya. Tak "dolzhen byt," odnako tak ne byvaet, i pochti ne bylo. ya zhe (ne tolko ya) prekrasno znayu, chto nyneshny prezident nichego xoroshego dlya obshestva ne sdelaet. No ya vybirayu ego. Eto politika. Eto prodolzhitsa do togo, kogda lyudi poymut, chto v mesto togo, chtoby gryzt knigi o polit teorii i nauke pravleniya, nado izuchit estestvennie nauki.
Tvoi dve voprosi ochen specifichny, i ix otvety v positivnom plane ne naity ne v kakoy strane na 100%. Net garantii practicheski nigde, net nikakoy sily - kstati etoy siloy byli tolko lyudi vse vmeste - obshestvo.

Quote:
p.s. Sorry for prefixal uncertainties: I don't make out your avatar clearly.
[/QUOTE]
Never mind...
Just in case: I'm male. My name is Hovhannes Tumanyan (no joke, I'm serious)[/QB][/QUOTE]

Then you'd have opened up a Literature topic, where I would be happier to discuss things. I hope you write ballads, Mr. Tumanyan?
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Old 03.07.2002, 23:05   #44
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by shai:

Predlagayu prekratit' sporit', tak kak my yavno vyshli za predely topika.

Quote:
I hope you write ballads, Mr. Tumanyan?
Unfortunatelly, I don't. )
My writings are very specific, i.e. computer programs.
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Old 05.07.2002, 20:35   #45
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>>>shai

Eto prodolzhitsa do togo, kogda lyudi poymut, chto v mesto togo, chtoby gryzt knigi o polit teorii i nauke pravleniya, nado izuchit estestvennie nauki.

Hamadzayn em. Es kani ore yerb vor azatveci kgrem im kartzike dra masin.
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