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Old 28.03.2002, 14:16   #1
Бакалавр
 
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Post K voprosu ob emigracii

Nedavno na forume byla zatronuta interesnaya tema: "O Rodine".
Kak togo i sledovalo ojidat', spor uklonilsya v storonu obsujdeniya nalichiya patriotizma v dushax uexavshix....
Predlagayu popytst'sya obsudit' prichiny, tolknuvshie ix na etot shag.
Ubeditel'naya pros'ba vyskazyvat' minimum emocij i maximum analitiki.
Itak, vashe mnenie, gospoda?

P.S. Pomoemu, gorazdo bolee produktivno popytat'sya najti pervoprichiny, i prilojit' usiliya k ix iskoreneniyu, chem slepo obvinyat', pokinuvshix zemlyu predkov, v otsutstvii patriotizma.
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Old 28.03.2002, 15:25   #2
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Hovik-jan!
O kakom mestnom patriotizme ti govorish'?
Ti "mudr, kak zmiy" i blagoroden, kak istinniy
muzhchina! Mne kazhetsa, chto tebya ne ostavlyayet kakoye-to neobosnovannoye chuvstvo vini, budto bi uyexav i pokinuv Armeniyu, ti kogo-to predal?
Rodina, i vse kto ponimayut, chto proisxodit, nesomnenno oplakivayut takogo roda poteri,
i mne lichno ochen' bol'no, chto cvet nacii,
v tvoyem lice, vinuzhden na dobrovol'no-vinuzhdennuyu emigraciyu!
Eto nevospolnimo!
A zavistniki - mestniye i ne , stariye i noviye, yavniye i skritiye - budut vsegda, i bol'she vsego im obidno, chto tebe tak legko, kak im kazhetsa, vse dayetsa... Nesomnenno, bud' u nix xot' maleyshaya vozmozhnost'- uderut zadrav xvost!
A poka - v zlobnoy nemoshi, budut kusat' i rvat' tebya xotya bi na forume!
Zhal', esli tebya eto xot' kaplyu ogorchit...
Mi gordimsya takim dostoyaniyem, kak ti, gde bi ti ni zhil, ti - nastoyashiy patriot Armenii i nashe sokrovishe!
A predateli poka ne speshat pokidat' Armeniyu -
im vol'gotno i spokoyno zdes', sredi mnozhestva sebe podobnix!
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Old 28.03.2002, 18:33   #3
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Yana ya ne znayu Toumanyana tak chto ni zavidovat ni oplakivat ya yevo ne mogu.

Ya smotryu chto on govorit seychas na etom forume i delayu ot etovo vivodi. Chestno skazat ya ot nevo uslishal mnogoe krome lyubvi k Armenii. Popravlyu ya delayu vivodi tolko na osnovanii postingov kotorie on sdelal v etom forume.

Naschyot Emigracii. Ya na eto smotryu spokoyno. Ya sam naxodilsa v emigracii pochti chto 9 let s 1990-1999 tak chto znayu chto eto takoe i zachem ono. Takje poprosil bi vsex kogda vi budte obsujdat Emigracyu ne Zabivat chto mi jivyom v 21 veke, v veke Samolyotov i Interneta. Tak chto obsujdat Emigracyu nado s etoy tochki zrenya a ne stochki zrenya cheloveka 19-ovo veka.
Kstati yarki primer tovo kak mojet chelovek jit v New-Yorke i imet silnoe vliyanie na internetovskoe obshestvo Armenii eto Groul. On vlyiyet ( v polojitelnom smisle ) na eto obshestvo nejeli bolshinstvo tex kotorie zdes jivut ya ne govoryu pro tex kto uexal.

Tak chto ne nado na vse smotret chyorno-belimi ochkami.

Teper davayte provedyom malenki Blic-Opros. Kto xochet chtobi v 3000 godu eshcho sushestvovala Armenya ili Nacia pod imenem Armyanin.
Dlya tex kto ne mojet yasno ponyat chto takoe Armenya, skajem tak kto xochet chtobi v 3000 godu kto to vspominal chto bil gorod Yerevan, v etom Gorode jili raznie Lyudi, nu naprimer Mono, Stinger, VX, aramx, Bila kompanya Mosaic v nyom trudilis Aram i David, Bil forum AKB kotori sdelal Acid.
VI XOTITE CHTOBI KOMU TO V 3000 GODU NE BILO BEZRACHLICHNO JILI MI ILI NET V 2002 GODU.
SKAJITE TOLKO DA ILI NET
PROSHU VSEM OTVETIT NA ETOT VOPROS



PS. I naposledok sovet. Yesli vam zdes ploxo jivyotsa i vi chuvstvuyte chto ne smojete tut dolgo proderjatsa to yezjayte v Zagranicu. Tolko ne nado iz sebya stroit Jertvu i Muchenika. Ne lyublyu ya etix "Muchenikov".
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Old 28.03.2002, 18:41   #4
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Kstati ya zabil skazat svoyo mnenie pro EMigracyu.
Ot Emigracii ya ne viju osoboy takoy ostroy opasnosti dlya Armenii. Yevreyi projili 2000 let v Emigracii.

Yest Drugie opasnosti dlya Armyanskoy nacii bolee fundamentalnie nejeli emigracya.

Pascal ya uje predstavlyayu tvoyu reakcyu )
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Old 28.03.2002, 18:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mono:
Teper davayte provedyom malenki Blic-Opros. Kto xochet chtobi v 3000 godu eshcho sushestvovala Armenya ili Nacia pod imenem Armyanin.
Dlya tex kto ne mojet yasno ponyat chto takoe Armenya, skajem tak kto xochet chtobi v 3000 godu kto to vspominal chto bil gorod Yerevan, v etom Gorode jili raznie Lyudi, nu naprimer Mono, Stinger, VX, aramx, Bila kompanya Mosaic v nyom trudilis Aram i David, Bil forum AKB kotori sdelal Acid.
VI XOTITE CHTOBI KOMU TO V 3000 GODU NE BILO BEZRACHLICHNO JILI MI ILI NET V 2002 GODU.
SKAJITE TOLKO DA ILI NET
PROSHU VSEM OTVETIT NA ETOT VOPROS

[/b]
мне, собственно, по барабану. т.е. я и не 'хочу', и не 'не хочу'. так как мне ответить? я просто не в состоянии это ссделать . если я доживу, может, буду помнить. а если нет, то мне нет разницы.
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Old 28.03.2002, 22:54   #6
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2 Yana:
Neee, Yan, nikakogo chuvstva viny net. Ibo ya ne schitayu i ne osoznayu sebya emmigrantom...
Prichina, po kotoroj ya nachal etot topik, sostoit v tom, chto xotelos' by uslyshat' mnenie kak mojno bol'shego chisla lyudej, ponyat' nastroeniya, caryashie v obshestve.
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Old 28.03.2002, 23:04   #7
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2 Mono:
Tvoj sluchaj dostatochno interesen....
Bylo by lyubopytno poslushat' o prichinax, tolknuvshix tebya za predely strany v 1990 godu.
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Old 29.03.2002, 01:07   #8
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V etom mire sushestvujut lish 2 tragedii. Pervaja - kogda ne dobivaeshsja togo , chego hochesh i vtoraja - kogda dobivaeshsja.
Oscar Wilde

Mysl' konechno ne moja , no schitaju ee ochen' vernoj. Ponimaesh, Hov, eto svojstvo chelovecheskoj natyry nahoditsja v vechnom dviwenii i poiske. Tak chto emigracija po svoej suti-javlenie estejstvennoe, no s malen'koj ogovorochkoj - uw ochen' dejstvuet na nervy vechnyj ston i sopli emigracii "o rodimyh berezkah"
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Old 29.03.2002, 02:35   #9
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Chestno govorya menya emigratsiya ne razdrazhaet. Bolee togo ya podderzhivayu pravo cheloveka vybirat' sebe mesto zhitel'stva, i postupat' kak emu ugodno. V tom chisle i vyskazyvat' te ili inye mysli.
Odnako nekotorye postupki menya razdrazhayut. Naprimer izliyaniya g. Hambardzumyana. Libo popytki kogo-to iz emigrantov "razyasnit' " mne chto plokhogo v moey strane.

Ya vizhu chto situaciya v moey strane daleka ot ideal'noy. I priznayu to chto est' po krayney mere 2 vykhoda (sredi vsego mnozhestva prochikh). Libo ostat'sya, libo uekhat'. I kazhdiy volen vybirat'. I ne mne odobryat' eti postupki ili osuzhdat'. Ya khochu skazat' o prostoy veshi, nazovem ee taktom.

Ya schitayu chto bestaktno polivat' gryazyu stranu v kotoroy ty zhivesh, libo iz kotoroy ty uekhal.
YA schitayu chto bestaktno pobuzhdat' k ot'ezdu libo k prebyvaniyu na Rodine publichno.
Ya schitayu chto bestaktno so storony emigrantov uchit' tomu kak zhit' v strane iz kotoroy oni uekhali.
Ya schitayu chto bestaktno obvinyat' emigrantov v chem by to ni bylo.

I pod konets. Ya zdes' zhivu. Mne zdes' priyatno. I esli komu-to priyatno za rubezhami moey strany - ya pozhelayu emu udachi. I eshe poproshu byt' taktichnym. Kstati poproshu ob etom i vsekh ostal'nykh.

Regards.
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Old 29.03.2002, 02:40   #10
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2Yana
Ya chestno govorya ne ponyal Vashego posta.
Ya tam uvidel ironiyu. I esli tak to ya s Vami soglasen.
Odnako esli ponimat' vse bukval'no - to ya zadal by Vam neskol'ko voprosov.

Poyasnite PLS tem kto na bronepoezde.
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Old 29.03.2002, 07:32   #11
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В основном я согласен с Pascal-ем. Эмиграция или жизнь на родине - это личное дело каждого. Уважать, жалеть или презирать кого-либо за тот или иной выбор будет наверное как минимум некорректно.

На самом деле я вижу в массовой эмиграции только одну реальную опасность -- в один недобрый день эмигрантам может стать очень неуютно в стране пребывания (как стало неуютно евреям в Германии в 30-годах прошлого века). А страна куда можно было бы репатриироваться к тому времени просто исчезнет с карты мира.

Евреям еще повезло -- тех кто уцелел приняла Америка. А повезет ли нашим эмигрантам? У кого-кого а у нас такого печального опыта более чем достаточно. Далеко оглядываться не надо -- сумгаитских, кировабадских, бакинских и прочих беженцев вокруг нас немало. А в 70 годах они и представить такого не могли.

Скажете в Америке все хорошо и спокойно -- ну это как посмотреть ....
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Old 29.03.2002, 07:41   #12
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Gospoda, my neskol'ko otklonilis' ot temmy...
Original'naya ideya sostoyala v obsujdenii prichin, a ne posledstvij...
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Old 29.03.2002, 21:09   #13
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Ya nekotoroe vremya ne ponimal post-a Yany. No nakonets-to doshlo.
Quote:
Originally posted by Yana:
[Hovik-jan!
O kakom mestnom patriotizme ti govorish'?
[skippped......]
Eto nevospolnimo!
Vospolnimo. I zhalet' nikogo i ni o chem ne nado. Zhaleya Vy zatragivaete pravo vybora konkretnogo individuuma, kuda ne stoit lezt' A PRIORI.
Quote:
Mi gordimsya takim dostoyaniyem, kak ti, gde bi ti ni zhil, ti - nastoyashiy patriot Armenii i nashe sokrovishe!
VY gordites' Yana. A ne my. Bud'te akkuratnee PLS.
Quote:
A predateli poka ne speshat pokidat' Armeniyu -
im vol'gotno i spokoyno zdes', sredi mnozhestva sebe podobnix!
I kto zhe predatel'??? Vy poyasnite. A to ved' ya i izvineniy mogu potrebovat'.

Regards
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Old 29.03.2002, 21:28   #14
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to Tumanyan

V 1990 ya ne mog reshat kuda ya poedu potomu chto ya bil nesovershenaletnim. A moyix roditeley togda poslal v zarubej veliki i moguchi Sovetski Soyuz. No konechno ya bil rad potomu chto moya semya stala bogache i potomu chto ya smog uvidet drugie strani i nakonec to ponyat zachem ona eta ARMENIA.

Teper mojet nemnojko rasskajte pro vas zachem vi uexali??? Iz kakix pobujdenii??? Mojet nakonec viskazite vashe mnenie pro emigracyu?

to Pascal

Ya dumayu Yana bila iskrenna. No Tumanyan skazal svoyo Neee, Yan, nikakogo chuvstva viny net. i poluchilsa vot takoy kazus

A voobshe ya soglasen ossobenno s tvoyim 3im punktom

Ya schitayu chto bestaktno so storony emigrantov uchit' tomu kak zhit' v strane iz kotoroy oni uekhali.

No s odnoy ogovorkoy slovo Bestaktno myaghko vibrano. I ktomu je smotrya chto uchat. Yesli ya chuvstvuyu chto Urok mne polezen to ya skaju spasibo. A yesli voobshe ne to chto polezen a daje opasen eto uje prostoye predatelstvo.
To yest sidyat sebe v Amerike i uchat vsem kak nado jit. Vot Kitayci ne soblyudayut prava cheloveka, To v Rossii vse duraki, to Armenii ne nujna Armya ( interesno navernoe NATO nas budet zashishat ) .

Yesli ne mojete Pomogat to pojaluysta ne Meshayte, jivite sebe spokoyno zachem sebya, muchayte ne poymu ya.
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Old 29.03.2002, 21:36   #15
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to Pascal

Polnost'ju soglasen (so mnoj eto redko sluchaetsya, pravda? )

P.S. Mezhdu nami - Agu B. by v etot forum.....Reki krovi by potekli
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