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Old 11.12.2003, 09:58   #16
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Esli korotoko - to dannaya model' nazyvaetsya seychas upravlyaemoy demokratiey.
Esli nuzhen primer na konkretnom gosudarstve - to nyneshnyaya Rossiya s chut' bolee sovershennym mekhanizmom partiy, bolee zhestkim kontrolem nad sredstvami massovoy manipulyatsii (eto ne tol'ko SMI) i men'shimi social'nymi raskhodami.

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Last edited by Pascal; 11.12.2003 at 10:12.
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Old 11.12.2003, 10:11   #17
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Ti soglases, k primeru, s tem, chto v sovremennom obshestve u roditeley vse men`she i men`she kontrolya v voprose vospitaniya detey ? Ili s tem, chto transportnie stredstva iz stredstva predostavlyayushego bol`shuyu svobodu stali sredstvom ogranichivayushim ego ? (vprochem, nado pozhit` v USA, chtobi ponyat` eto na sobstvenniy shkure).
T.e. obshaya ideya ego ta, chto vse plyusi NTP oborachivayutsya minusami. Obshestvo razvivaetsya kak nezavisimaya edinica i otdel`niy chelovek nachinaet imet` vse mesnhee i menshee znachenie v nem.
Eto ne novost'. v 17-18 veke bylo dvizhenie Ludditov v Anglii. Oni tozhe protestovali protiv progressa. Pravda po prichinam bol'she ekonomicheskim, chem social'nym. Gde Luddity? V istorii.
W_z_rd progress vygoden vsem. Te zamechaniya tipa vospitaniya detey ili svobody predostavlennoy transportom - eto melochi. Na samom - to dele ne zabotyat nikogo krome Unabombera. Oni zakonomerny i chto samoe vazhnoe vosprinyaty i vostrebovany obshestvom. A Unabomber kak byl agreessivno nastroennym marginalom, tak im i ostalsya.
On mne ochen' napomnil lyudey zhelayushikh izmenit' mir k luchshemu, no ne sovsem predstavlyayushikh kak eto sdelat' ne na bumage, a na dele. Etakiy Marat 20-go veka.
Bor'ba s vetryanymi mel'nitsami zanyatie velikolepnoe, no neblagodarnoe.

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Old 11.12.2003, 16:02   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pascal
Eto ne novost'. v 17-18 veke bylo dvizhenie Ludditov v Anglii. Oni tozhe protestovali protiv progressa. Pravda po prichinam bol'she ekonomicheskim, chem social'nym. Gde Luddity? V istorii.
W_z_rd progress vygoden vsem. Te zamechaniya tipa vospitaniya detey ili svobody predostavlennoy transportom - eto melochi. Na samom - to dele ne zabotyat nikogo krome Unabombera. Oni zakonomerny i chto samoe vazhnoe vosprinyaty i vostrebovany obshestvom. A Unabomber kak byl agreessivno nastroennym marginalom, tak im i ostalsya.
On mne ochen' napomnil lyudey zhelayushikh izmenit' mir k luchshemu, no ne sovsem predstavlyayushikh kak eto sdelat' ne na bumage, a na dele. Etakiy Marat 20-go veka.
Bor'ba s vetryanymi mel'nitsami zanyatie velikolepnoe, no neblagodarnoe.

Regards
Pascal, srazu skazhu, chto ya ne razdelayu ubezhdeniy Unabombera. On deystvitel`no xochet sdelat` mir luchshe, no ne tolko ne znaek kak sdelat` ego na praktike, no dazhe vryad li ponimaet chto takoe "luchshe" (da i voobshe vryad li kto-nibud` ponimaet, no seychas ne ob etom). Ya ne protivnik progressa, no i ne storonnik ego. Ya soglasen s Kachinskim v tom, chto lyubaya polozhitelnaya storona nauchno-texnicheskogo razvitiya negativnoy storonoy v silu chelovecheskoy osobennsoti perexodit` v kraynosti i zloupotrebyat`, a ne upotreblyat`. Odnako delo v tom, chto NTR delaet eti zloupotrebleniya bolee zrimymi, bolee opasnymi.

I voobshe, ya ne vizhu "progressa" v progresse, ya tol`ko vizhu izmenenie formy. Xorosho eto ili ploxo - ya ne znayu, i voobshe ne lyublyu dumat` v etix terminax. Dlya menya vazhno, chtoby u menya byla vsegda vozmozhnost` vybirat`, no eto vse trudnee i trudnee sdelat`. Ya vse eshe mogu ne pol`zovat`sya "blagami" civilizacii (pri zhelanii), no cherez neskol`ko pokoleniy lyudi budut vynuzhdeny imi polzovat`sya (naselenie-to rastet). I obidno to, chelovek postoyanno pitaetsya sorevnovat`sya s prirodoy, togda kak emu sledovalo by s ney sotrudnichat`.
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Old 11.12.2003, 18:56   #19
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Ya soglasen s Kachinskim v tom, chto lyubaya polozhitelnaya storona nauchno-texnicheskogo razvitiya negativnoy storonoy v silu chelovecheskoy osobennsoti perexodit` v kraynosti i zloupotrebyat`, a ne upotreblyat`. Odnako delo v tom, chto NTR delaet eti zloupotrebleniya bolee zrimymi, bolee opasnymi.
Sir, vremya proshedshe s momenta izobreteniya fotografii do nachala bor'by s pornografiey = 2 godam.

A esli seryeznee, to gde est' progress - tam est' i zloupotrebleniya. Samoe interesnoe, chto eto sovershenno estestvenno. Tak zhe estestvenno kak i prisposablivat' sredu obitaniya dlya sebya.

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I obidno to, chelovek postoyanno pitaetsya sorevnovat`sya s prirodoy, togda kak emu sledovalo by s ney sotrudnichat`.
A po-drugomu chelovek ne mozhet. I po-moemu eto sleduet iz vsego processa evolyutsii. Cheloveka ot zhivotbykh otlichaet razum. I tam gde chelovek dodumalsya shvyrnut' kamnem po mamontu, a ne zagryzt' ego - tam i konchilos' edinenie s prirodoy, i nachalos' to protivostoyanie o kotorom pishesh ty. Edinstvennym razresheniem etogo konflikta mozhno videt' global'noe unichtozhenie chelovechestva. Tol'ko zachem ?

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