Linux versus Windows

[Kooper_26]

Dorogoj Administrator, kak vy dumaete, mozhet dobavit' temu pro Windy??? Ved' kak by vy prezirali etu sistemu, ona stoit u 99% forumcev, i problemy s nej est' u vsex ya uveren.

Kstati kto za eto, pust' vyskazhetsya!!

[noch]

W2000 advanced server yavlyaetsya odnoy iz samyhk nadezhnykh sistem, esli ego pravil'no nastroit'. W2000 mozhno vpolne sopostavit' s linux-om kak workstation - kak server, mozhet ya i ne ponimayu v etom, no kak server eto vse zhe nenadezhno, dazhe esli ispol'zovat' uroven' security ne po defaultu NT-shnyj, a rodnoy w2000shnyj
NTFS 5 - SAMAYA NADEZHNAYA I ADVANCED file-ovaya sistema v mire. Ey dazhe ustupaet ext3, s ogranicheniyami na razmer file-ov v gigabaytakh . Poetomu video workstation na baze linux na ext3 ne sazhayut, a sazhayut na file-ovuyu sistemu SGI. Pravda v ryade sluchaev FAT vse zhe predpochtitel'nee.
i facty:
pri rabote s video:
95-yj bystree sostavlyaet vykhodnoy video file esli iskhodniki na odnom vinte, a rezul'tat na drugom.
w98 uzhe chetko s etim spravlyaetsya, no derzhit slishkom gromozdkij swap pri video zakhvate i nikogda ne ispol'zuet bolee 128 m pamyati, dazhe esli neobkhodimo. ya lichno ne videl chto by ispol'zovalos' bolee 90
95-yj imeet legko razresaemuyu problemu - podderzhka usb, odnako installiruemyj soft skazhem dlya usb writerov kak pravilo ne interesuetsya nalichiem v w95 usb driver-a, a prosto trebuet 98.
98 otkrovenno tyazhelee rabotaet chem 95
Me otkrovenno tyazhelee rabotaet chem vse 9x
proschet na W Me ochen' medlennyj, na w98 bystree, na w95 esh'e bystree.
na Win NT proschet primerno takoy zhe kak na w98
na W2000...
proschet bystree v 10-15 raz chem na w95 dazhe pri 128 RAM
na WinXP proschety neskol'ko medlennee chem na W2000. XP ne nastol'ko nmogozadachen kak 2000, i imeet chastye problemy s regeneraciey izobrazheniya. Khotya dazhe Linux ne otlichaetsya super mnogopotchnos'yu... naprimer:
pri raspakovke tar.gz nastol'ko gruzitsya, chto esli v parallel'noy sessii nabirat' text, propustit polovinu simvolov, chego xtati v Windowse nikogda ne zamechalos'. pomnite shutku?
nabiraem paru slov v win311 na IBM286 i zhdem minut 5 poka on ikh pokazhet
Vo sekh sluchayakh w2000 i linux GORAZDO luchshe rabotayut na khoroshem harde, a na plokhom imeyut problemy, a w9x plevat' na chem rabotat', vse ravno odinakogo plokho, poetomu pohti vo vsekh firmakh po prodazhe kompyuterov po umolchaniyu stavitsya w98
I esh'e - esli linuxconf ne spravlyaetsya s nekotorymi zadachami korrektno, ili khuzhe togo, spravlyaetsya uroduya konfiguraciyu, to s Control Panel takikh problem esh'e ne bylo
Eto vse ne oznachaet chto linux khuzhe ili Windows luchshe. azhdaya sistema dolzhna udovletvoryat' tem zadacham dlya kotorykh konkretnyj kompyuter prednaznachen.

[Pascal]

Ne khotel lezt' v etot spor, odnako kak ya ponyal pridetsya.
Srazu zamechu - ya ne pytayus' dokazyvat' chto Linux luchshe Win{*}. Prosto ukazhu na yavnie netochnosti v post-e uvazhaemogo noch.

1. Poprobuem opredelit' ponyatie nadezhnost' systemy. Eto ponyatie upiraetsya v kachestvo imeyushegosya systemnogo i okolo systemnogo softa. I luchshim pokazatelem dlya nadezhnosti yavlyaetsya UPTIME - vremya mezhdu perezagruzkami. Dostupniy mne istochnik ukazyvayushiy samie dolgie uptimes na publichnykh serverakh nakhoditsya zdes' http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html. Zamet'te v chisle pervykh 50 - net ni odnoy systemy pod upravleniem Win{*}.
Esli u Vas est' kakoy-libo inoy istochnik, libo inoe opredelenie nadezzhnosti PLS privedite ego. Tol'ko pozhaluysta v terminakh Computer Science i seryeznoy statistiki, a ne "men'she zavisaet na moey mashine".
2. Po povodu NTFS. Ya chestno govorya ne sovsem v kurse kakie eto ogranicheniya est' u ext3. V sostav vsekh distributivov vkhodit ReiserFS, a u nee ogranicheniya na razmer odnogo file-a 17.6 Tbytes na systemakh s 32 - bitnym int, a na systemakh s 64 - bitnym int 2^60-1 bytes.
Vzyato otsyuda http://www.namesys.com/features.html smotri v razdele Specifications for ReiserFS.
Pozhaluysta privedite podobniy parametr dlya NTFS.
3. po povodu raspakovki archive-a tar.gz. Priglashayu Vas dlya provedeniya sootvetstvennogo experimenta na moey mashine s ne samym khoroshim hard-om.
PPro - 180, 128MB RAM. U menya pochemu - to simvoly ne propadayut. .

A seychas poproshu obyasnit' Vas neskol'ko terminov i predlozheniy, kotorye yua vstretil v Vashem post-e i ne sovsem ponyal. Delo v tom, chto ya dostatochno neplokho znakom s terminologiey i metodami postroeniya OS odnako ne ponyal nekotorykh polozheniy.
1. uroven' security ne po defaultu NT-shnyj, a rodnoy w2000shnyj kakie eto urovni security? URL s opisaniem v studiyu, PLS!
2. XP ne nastol'ko nmogozadachen kak 2000 chto takoe "ne nastol'ko mmnogozadachen"???
3. Khotya dazhe Linux ne otlichaetsya super mnogopotchnos'yu ya ne sovserm ponyal, chto est' "super mnogopotochnost'". V literature mnogopotochnost' - eto nalichie vyzova (systemnogo ili bibliotechnogo) realizuyushego mekhanizm threadov. I v LInux, i v Win{*} on est'. Super mnogopotochnosti ne nablyudaetsya v oboikh sluchayakh. Tak chto poyasnite kto na kom stoyal.

Tak zhe pozvolyu sebe ukazat' priemlimiy sposob vedeniya inzhenernykh sporov. Esli est' nekiy nablyudaemiy fact - to obychno ukazyvaetsya, chto danniy fact nablyudalsya imenno u Vas. Esli zhe etot fact obsheizzvestniy, to na nego privodyat ssylku. Inache lyubaya diskussiya perekhodit na uroven' "A vot u menya takoe sluchalos'......".

Regards

[groul]

Iz lichnogo opyta...

Win98SE OEM rabotayet bez reinstall-a uzhe 1.5 goda. Za eto vremya paru raz menyalis'/pereustanavlivalis' komponenty (CD-Recorder, Video, Network Adapters, 2nd HDD).
Testiroval kuchu tyazhelyx programm (Tipa StarOffice beta, i t.d.).

Rabotayet pod bol'shoj nagruzkoj (grafika dlya pechati, programming, servera raznye pod nego zapuskayu).

Pravda otyazhelel malost' poslednie pol-goda (gruzitsya 3-4 minuty) no perezhit' eto mozhno.

Hardware: HP Kayak XA (3 ventilyatora + cooler + special'naya systema ventilyacii s vozduxootvodom
Veroyatno kachestvo raboty Win napryamuyu svyazano s kachestvom kompyutera tozhe...

[noch]

Naschet "NTshnyj i w2000-shny"
W2000 mozhet rabotat' v dvukh rezhimakh: smeshannyj i mormal'nyj
Pri pervom rezhime ispol'zuetsya avtorizaciya win NT 4, so vsem izvestnymi
dyrkami. Etot rezhim u w2000 po defaultu, chto by sokhranit' sovmestimost' so starymi sistemami. Vo vtorom rezhime ispol'zuetsya
avtorizaciya "kerberos", dumayu, izvestnaya tebe iz unixa
Vsemkomu interesno poprobovat' vtoroy rezhim: zapuskaete "active directory - domainy i doverie".
pravyj click po imeni servera - i properties tam prostym nazhatiem
knopki smenyaetsya rezhim security Odako v etom sluchae
usery window starykh versij mgut osh'utit' problemy s registraciey c w2000
Nachet nadezhnosti sistemy i uptime - ne mogu ne soglasit'sya.
No ya sravnival WIndows s Windows i otmetil, chto ne "kak server", a kak "workstation" w2000
yavlyaetsya nadezhnoy sistemoy.
unix kak server - eto skazka
sam znayu mnozhestvo linux i freebsd serverov kotorye ne peregruzhalis' neskol'ko let
tem ne menee dumayu budet ne bezynteresno posmotret' zdes' http://www.interex.org/hpworldnews/hpw202/01lab.html
gde v ryade testov linux suse yavno ustupaet windows
managing processes and threads - sravnenie linux i windows http://www-106.ibm.com/developerwork...library/l-rt7/

[Will Shakespeare]

Linux's installation SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[Pascal]

2Will Shakespeare
Privozhu Vashe vyskazyvanie nakhodyasheesya po adresu
http://acid.land.am/cgi/ubb/ultimate...;f=26;t=000008

Chego tut smeshnogo, yesli ya ni razu v jizni ne videl linux, pochti ne imeyu ponyatiya o nyom i xochu imet' ego (ponyatie) ?

[Pascal]

2noch
1. Po povodu nadezhnosti. Nadezhnost' eto ne tot parametr kotoriy razlichno primenim k serveru i workstation-u. Eto parametr obshiy.
2. po ssylke privedennoy Vami ukazano chto sozdanie processov v Linux ~ v 2 raza bystree chem v Win{*}.
A sozdanie novykh threadov ~2-2.5 raza bystree. Chto podtverzhdaet moyu tochku zreniya. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerwork...library/l-rt7/
3. Dlya nachala khochu zametit', chto vo vtorom sluchae ispol'zovalsya notebook, a ne polnotsenniy computer. Privozhu tsytaty iz vtorog linka ukazannogo VAmi.
Otnositel'no pervogo testa.

Once again, the difference between the geometric means for the 34 kernels was on the order of 18 percent, with Windows XP Pro clocking in at 240 and SuSE 7.3 clocking in at 203. Nonetheless, within a 95 percent confidence interval, performance was almost identical.

Vtoroy test pokazal, nekotoroe padenie prozivoditel'nosti Linux na specifichnykh operaciyakh s fil-ovoy systemoy.

As the graph shows, large volumes of asynchronous I/O requests are currently a weakness in Linux performance. On the OmniBook's simple ATA drive, Windows XP Pro was able to deliver 70 I/Os per second with an average access time of only 40 milliseconds. In comparison, Linux was able to deliver only about 32 I/Os per second. With hardware RAID and storage on a SAN, this performance differential worsens dramatically.

Ostavshiesya testy ne byli opisany no na grafikakh vidno, chto parametry ochen' blizki.
Odnako napomnyu Vam eshe raz - hardware, na kotorom testirovalis' OS - notebook, so vsemi vytekayushimi posledstviyami.
4. Po povodu authentication pri pomoshi Kerberos. Deystvitel'no, Microsoft posle dolgikh godov sushestvovaniya otkrytoy sytemy bezopasnykh kommunikatsiy reshila ee ispol'zovat'. Odnako eto vryad li kardinal'no umen'**** kol-vo problem s bezopasnostyu. Primenenie tekhnologiy shifrovaniya traffica vnutri domain-a ne izbavlyaet ot ponyatiya virus. Bolee togo, sushestvovanie system s zakrytym iskhodnym kodom plodit problemy s bezopasnostyu i zamedlyaet vremya reagirovaniya. K primeru pozornaya oshibka s nekorrektno razrabotannym mekhanizma debug (DebPLoit). Ya ne znayu poyavilas' li zaplatka k etoy uyazvimosti, no fact nalichiya bug-a design time, a ne implementation time govorit o mnogom.
5. Vot VAm drugaya ssylka otnositel'no performance-a http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,...3D16554,00.asp
Prichem obratite vnimanie - zadacha na Linux reshalas' tipichno windowsovskaya. I trebuyushaya proizvoditel'nosti file-ovoy systemy. Etot test neskol'ko obescenivaet luchshuyu proizvoditel'nost' file-ovoy systemy na notebook-e.

I naposledok. Za Vami, noch, neskol'ko dolzhkov. Vy ne obyasnili mne nekotorykh polozheniy Vashego pervogo posta. Esli tak budet prodolzhatsya, to diskussiya primet bessmyslenniy kharakter. K chemu kak mne kazhetsya ne stremimsya ni ya ni Vy .

Regards

[Will Shakespeare]

Smiy xrenowyy moment v linukx eto ustanowka. a sama systema neploxaya.

[Kooper_26]

Linux voobshe ne prostaya sistema, i nuzhno nekotoroe vremya chtoby k nej privyknut'. Ya voobshe ****ayu chto: 1)linuxu ne xvataet prostoty windows, a 2)windows-u ne xvataet ekonomichnosti linux-a.
V pol'zu pervogo: nedavno pytalis' sconfigurirovat' close relay na sendmail. Vnachale sdelali eto pri pomoshi linuxconf. Resl'tat: Relay okazalsya otkryym na nekotoye vidy obrashenij, chto dopuskalo spam. prishlos' zanovo installirovat' sendmail i skonfigurirovat' ego vruchnuyu. T.e. interactivnye moduli Linuxa, kotorye dolzhny oblegchat' rabotu pol'zovatelya zachastuyu nedorabotanny i poloxo spravlyayutsya so svoej zadachej. Chto uslozhanyayet rabotu obychnogo pol'zovatelya. Etogo "defekta" net u Windows, kotoryj imenno napravlen na legkuyu rabotu pol'zovatelya

V pol'zu vtorogodovoda mogu skazat' odno, ya nikak ne mogu ponyat' zachem serveru (Windows) voobshe graficheskaya obolochka, na kotoruyu in tratit okolo 60Mb resursov. V Linuxe eto osushestvlenno ochen' produmanno: mozhno pol'zovat'sya odnovremenno neskol'kimi terminalami, ne vrubaya etogo monstra, po imeni GUI.

[Pascal]

2Kooper_26
Sir, ne bylo i nikogda ne budet v Unixlike OS udobnykh dlya prostogo usera interface-ov konfigurirovaniya. Potomu kak ne nuzhno prostomu useru konfigurirovat' mail-server.

Regards

[Biovir]

И снова насущный спор Линух или Мастдай....
С полгода назад я был в москве пару недель Ну и так случилось что я был в редакции сайта iXBT.com... Так вот в то время у них в редакции получилось так что в одной комнате оказался заядлый Юниксоид и его типичная противоположность поклонник вин (в особенности 2к) ну в редакции что говорят были весёлые дни Оба они писали статьи по осям и тестировали железо и завершилось это кульминационной "дракой". На это пришёл посмотреть весь состав редакции Так вот они сели каждый за комп с той осью которую ненаввидили и начали доказывать преимущества и ляпы Окончился спор в ничейную... оказалось что по общему счёту у 2к и у линукса (красноголовый 7,2) одинаковое колличество недостатков а плюсов и там и там мало Ну это я так просто рассказал.. сам я юзаю обе, и как то не задаюсь вопросом какая лучше.. просто есть вещи которые мне приятней делать под мастдаем и есть -под линухом

[Will Shakespeare]

Sir, ne bylo i nikogda ne budet v Unixlike OS udobnykh dlya prostogo usera interface-ov konfigurirovaniya. Potomu kak ne nuzhno prostomu useru konfigurirovat' mail-server.

2 pascal> ty smotrel CorelLINUX??? tochno pro mail-server ne znayu, no v etom linuxe ochen udobniy interfeys configurirovaniya. Ya sam ne videl. vsyo chto ya govoryu, ya chital v jurnalax i inet-statyax.

(c) W.S.

[Kooper_26]

Originally posted by Pascal:
2Kooper_26
Sir, ne bylo i nikogda ne budet v Unixlike OS udobnykh dlya prostogo usera interface-ov konfigurirovaniya. Potomu kak ne nuzhno prostomu useru konfigurirovat' mail-server.

Xorosho, a esli konfigurirovat' nado tomu zhe sisadu??? ili obyazatel'no eto delat' vruchnuyu???
Eto vse ravno, chto skazat' shoferu: "esli ty xoroshij shofer, to dergaj za kolesa, i nechego pol'zovat'sya rulem"

[Will Shakespeare]

LOOOOL xoroshaya shutka

[Dancer]

Ludi etot spor mojet prodoljatsya vechno ...

esli t@ sidish ne na servere ... to kakoy smisol muchatsya na Linux ...

konechno i u Win est' nedostatki ...

poprobuyte prognat' programku na Win NT, 2000
.........................................

#include <stdio.h>

int main(){
printf("aaa\t\b\b\b");
return 0;
}

.........................................

OOps ....