[acid]

Don't you think the world won't forget these kidnappings once the life there will be stabilized? This is not the right way...

[Red Stone]

Originally Posted by acid

Don't you think the world won't forget these kidnappings once the life there will be stabilized? This is not the right way...

Hey Acid!

Didn't you forget something?

[acid]

I don't think so Red Stone... or give me a hint.

[Red Stone]

Sorry, Acid!

When I first saw your post I was thinking that you were trying to point out something in particular, so I was expecting some picture, link or anything to complement the idea.

Now I see that you were speaking in general...

Well getting to the theme as it is I must say that I strongly agree that this is not the right way. But without issuing any excuse to these terrorist actions, the main responsible for them is Mr George Bush who ordered a terrorist attack on Iraq, under the fake excuse that Iraq posseded massive destruction guns.

As far as the world (taking world as people all over the world) forgeting I must say that yes the world will forget, as they pratically forgot about Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, Pinochet, Villeda, etc. and will soon forget about Saddam Hussein and George Bush. Unfortunately people's memory is very short in resources. And generally speaking, when we are not within the fire circle, we trend to choose forgeting the unpleasant things.

Finally I don't know when life in Iraq will be stabilised. From the experience of the israeli-palestinien situation, no stabilisation is to be expected while the world leaders (especially the US administration) insist in putting their noses in other countries business. I remind that in the israeli-palestinien case years ago when Rabin was the leader in Israel, they kept really secret conversations during about an year, and things were running slowly but well (during that year nobody heard about any violent acts between them). When somebody came out with the news and the american leaders knew about it immediately wanted to "moderate" the conversations, and the problems re-started.

I'm a man of peace and am very sceptic about the current leaders in this world. They do anything for getting noticed...

Cheers!

[acid]

Originally Posted by Red Stone

Now I see that you were speaking in general...

Yep, it's in general, since internet is full of the movies/pictures of hostages. No reason to put them here.

Originally Posted by Red Stone

Well getting to the theme as it is I must say that I strongly agree that this is not the right way. But without issuing any excuse to these terrorist actions, the main responsible for them is Mr George Bush who ordered a terrorist attack on Iraq, under the fake excuse that Iraq posseded massive destruction guns.

I'm agree that Bush started the campaign from the wrong side. He could have be more polite and far-seeing in this. I am not considering Bush as smart person.

Originally Posted by Red Stone

As far as the world (taking world as people all over the world) forgeting I must say that yes the world will forget, as they pratically forgot about Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, Pinochet, Villeda, etc. and will soon forget about Saddam Hussein and George Bush. Unfortunately people's memory is very short in resources. And generally speaking, when we are not within the fire circle, we trend to choose forgeting the unpleasant things.

That's because the nation itself did its best to improve situation. And in your list all dictators been replaced with better leadership. But there is one difference I think, that as we can see, Saddam is not in power right now and the mess is not less. What we have is religious "dictatorship" which never happened before as far as I know. So I think your list is not very much related to situation in Iraq.

Originally Posted by Red Stone

Finally I don't know when life in Iraq will be stabilised. From the experience of the israeli-palestinien situation, no stabilisation is to be expected while the world leaders (especially the US administration) insist in putting their noses in other countries business. I remind that in the israeli-palestinien case years ago when Rabin was the leader in Israel, they kept really secret conversations during about an year, and things were running slowly but well (during that year nobody heard about any violent acts between them). When somebody came out with the news and the american leaders knew about it immediately wanted to "moderate" the conversations, and the problems re-started.

The longer it will be unstable, the worst will be for all of us, more amount of religious fanatics going to concentrate in the region and you never know what threat it can become to "your" country. Same with israeli-palestinien conflict - religious one.

[Obelix]

What is currently happening in Iraq, is of course the fault of the current administrations foreign policy strategy and, particullarly, George W. Bush. However, I believe this phenomenon we see now is not immediately connected with that. After Afghanistan Al-Qaeda leaders found themselves in an adequate position, mainly because there now was no government that outrightly supported them, and though some governments continue to host training cams and finance terrorists they do that at a low level and mostly secretly.
The main goal of what is happening in Iraq is not aimed immediately at the US, it is aimed against Iraq. Al-Qaeda is trying to use taliban tactics to destabilise the country and to take over.
I believe the best thing the US can now do is stick to what it's come there for, because leaving the country now could be devastating for the Iraqi people.

[acid]

Originally Posted by Obelix

I believe the best thing the US can now do is stick to what it's come there for, because leaving the country now could be devastating for the Iraqi people.

They probably can't do that for number of reasons. But one main reason is because they've lost the war.

[Red Stone]

Originally Posted by acid

What we have is religious "dictatorship" which never happened before as far as I know. So I think your list is not very much related to situation in Iraq.
The longer it will be unstable, the worst will be for all of us, more amount of religious fanatics going to concentrate in the region and you never know what threat it can become to "your" country. Same with israeli-palestinien conflict - religious one.

Besides the fact that it happened before in Iran (which was the "excuse" for the american administration to arm Saddam against that "danger"), the deep part of the problem (war, terrorist acts, as you wish to name it) is not the religion or the fanatics (fundamentalists): it will be always in the leaders (the History says us so), who (most part of the times not believing what they swear believeing) send people to the action, and preserve themselves for taking their profits later on. Besides as far as I know shiitas are a majority (a slight one but still a majority) in Iraq. So... somebody is taking advantage of the fact for trying to inherit the palaces built by order of Saddam Hussein...

Originally Posted by Obelix

The main goal of what is happening in Iraq is not aimed immediately at the US, it is aimed against Iraq. Al-Qaeda is trying to use taliban tactics to destabilise the country and to take over.
I believe the best thing the US can now do is stick to what it's come there for, because leaving the country now could be devastating for the Iraqi people.

Hmmm... may be Al-Qaeda has something to do with it, may be the american administration wants us to believe that... I don't know...

I agree with what you say (the possible consequences of US army leaving the Iraq), but I'm sure Iraq (and all the near countries) will not be stabilised with foreign soldiers (and interests) staying there. Once again Mr Bush is the first guilty of all the crimes committed and to be committed there, whether or not he orders his troops to return to US. So in my opinion the best and quicker solution would be letting the Iraqis solve their own problems (in spite of some new ones having been created by the foreing military intervention) between themselves.

Peace!

[Obelix]

>acid
Lost the war? They've won the war but they are loosing the battle right now.

>RedStone
I don't believe any decent Iraqi (as in fact any decent citizen of his country) would take up weapons and go against his own people and against the future of his own country. Of course there are iraqis involved in what is happening now, but still the majority must be from outside. Possibly it's not Al-Qaeda, that's difficult to say.

Iraq today is far from solving its own problems. They don't even have a military force or decent police. I believe if Iraq is ever stabilized it will take time and efforts from the international community (by far not only the US).

[acid]

Originally Posted by Obelix

Lost the war? They've won the war but they are loosing the battle right now.

If taking down Saddam with his regime was the only target then I must agree with you. But they've lost the war on terror. And my opinion is they never gonna win in that war unless europe will reconsider its approach.

[Obelix]

Originally Posted by acid

If taking down Saddam with his regime was the only target then I must agree with you. But they've lost the war on terror. And my opinion is they never gonna win in that war unless europe will reconsider its approach.

Taking down saddam and his regime _was_ the target of this war. The war on terrorism is a completely different issue, and the iraq war itself had little to do with that (although Bush used the issue of terrorism to give his arguments more weight before the war it was by far a secondary issue. Even at that time nobody would outrightly say that Saddam sponsored terrorism).
The problem with terrorism is that it isn't a sovereign state for one to wage war against and to win or to loose. To fight terrorism, as to fight drugs or trafficing there must be effort from all parties involved. I don't think that will happen soon, and all the civilized world can do now is brace itself and pray to god nothing bad happens.

[Sevana]

Acid ,here is a question for you , do you think the world will ever forget that this was an illegal war by the USA , why do you think Bush attacked Iraq ? does he really care about the Iraqis or who was ruling it . this is a test Acid think of the answers .

[Vega$]

Originally Posted by Red Stone

I'm a man of peace and am very sceptic about the current leaders in this world. They do anything for getting noticed...

exactly...