[Mono]

Religion and democracy are not compatible because Democracy became another form of religion.

You cannot have two religions in one place . LooL

[august]

Originally Posted by Fleur

hope so

Fleur, am I right to assume you do not want to see Turkey as an EU member? Can you give your reasons for this?

And Mono - this is one of the rare occasions I agree with you Although, probably, with a somewhat different connotation.

[Fleur]

[QUOTE=august]Fleur, am I right to assume you do not want to see Turkey as an EU member? Can you give your reasons for this?

Well, my "hope so" refers to VaheX's "Europe is stupid, but not so stupid"... I understand, that his sentence concerns Turkey... mine not
Do I want or do I not want to see Turkey as an EU member will make no change in the process of negotiations for EU membership. I try to stay away from politics...

[Obelix]

Fleur, am I right to assume you do not want to see Turkey as an EU member? Can you give your reasons for this?

May I answer that for my part.
1) I do not want to see turkey in the EU because that would effectivily minimize all our, already not so great chances of becoming an EU member. That is why turkey did not want to see Cyprus in the EU (in fact I forgot, is it already?).
2) That, as well as any other major international organization membership by turkey, would mean greater influence by turkey on questions concerning the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
3) Plain chauvinist jealousy.

I know there are many people in armenia who think better of turkey than the general armenian population, and maybe I am one, but I really don't believe there's someone around who wants turkey in the EU.

[Mono]

Fleur

I am an armenian. Some people say i am nationalist. But i want Turkey to be part of EU.

[Strider]

That's an interesting discussion!
In fact, there is a whole field of research that looks at impact of religion on democracy (and prosperity of a given country). It seems that Protestant Christian countries were historically the first democracies, followed by Catholics. And there is no Muslim democracy so far (unless you consider Turkey as democracy)

[Mono]

The real democracy is possible only in polytheistic religions..

[Red Stone]

Barew!

As far as go (or come, doesn't matter) my knowledge of History, democracy is a word (and idea) of greek origin, and existed centuries before Christ.

On the other hand, the modern democracy has its roots in the French Revolution ( Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité ).

This means, in my humble opinion, that any religion can go with democracy provided the religion leaders don't interfere with politics.

But the main problem, still in my opinion, is that people (in each nation) should have the right of choosing if they want a democracy as their regimen or not, and each person in the world should have the right of choosing his/her religion. This is an achievement that is worth of a good fight (with no violence, of course)!

Lav egheq!

[Երեխա]

Originally Posted by Mono

Some people say i am nationalist

Strange people...

[Fleur]

Originally Posted by Obelix

May I answer that for my part.
1) I do not want to see turkey in the EU because that would effectivily minimize all our, already not so great chances of becoming an EU member. That is why turkey did not want to see Cyprus in the EU (in fact I forgot, is it already?).

Yes, it is, but only the Greek part

[Obelix]

>Fleur
Obviously. One must first recognize a state to further consider making it a member of an international organization

[Fleur]

Originally Posted by Obelix

>Fleur
Obviously. One must first recognize a state to further consider making it a member of an international organization

Uhu...
In the light of recent news from northern part of Cyprus, the process of recognition of turkish part of the island as a state would not be an easy one.
i mean the information given by Justice minister of Cyprus... according to him, international terrorists, including those who participate in Beslan school siege, are trained in the Turkish-occupied northern Cyprus.

[Երեխա]

Do you see?
They don't want Turks to think they are "so far far away" from Muslim world.
That's what i talk about.

That's another proof of my teory about Turks and EU...

[august]

Mono, looks like this is truly the first time that I constantly agree with you Firstly, because yes, i would prefer to see Turkey as an EU member, as I believe Armenia would only benefit from this - being an EU member would impose ceratin "behavior rules" on Turkey, also, having a border with EU - I think it is beneficial in many ways. And I do not think Turkey's memebrship would play against Armenia's membership... It has not played any role in case of teh Council of Europe, has it?

And finally - IIMHO, democracy DOES CALL for politheistic society. Otherwise what is the point of it?

[Obelix]

>august
Why do you think, that if turkey becomes an EU member, it will behave better than it does now. After all, it already has to make a big effort (and in fact is doing one) to get into the EU. Life will be easier for them after that.
For one, I don't believe, that if turkey does not recognize the genocide in it's strive to become an EU member, it will never do so after becoming one. One simple reason, that countries will be more reluctant to pressure an EU member.

By the way, I have noticed in turkey, that becoming an EU member for them is merely a national idea. It is evident, that many in turkey will not benefit at all from it becoming a member, however any politician gains huge points if he brings turkey closer to that goal.