26.05.2002, 04:57
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#31
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Бакалавр
Join Date: 03 2002
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Posts: 482
Rep Power: 0
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Originally posted by Gates:
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Mojesh' mne nazvat' neskol'ko korparativnix messangerov?
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NU, naprimer Microsoft NetMeeting.
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SST-i imeet svoj sector rinka, to chto u nego malo global'nix pol'zavatelej, eto nikak ne vliyaet na ego prodavaemost', eto daje vkakoj to mere plus.
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Ne sovsem ponyal smysl frazy. Prodaetsya li etot SST, ili net? Esli da, to kto ego pokupaet?
O kakom rynke idet rech'? Ob armyanskom?
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I ti nezabivaej chto eto programma pishetsya v Armeenii i nesravnimo deshevle chem zapadnie analogi.
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Podavlyayushuyu chast' stoimosti podobnogo klassa programm sostavlyaet ne razrabotka, a support. Kotorogo, kak ya ponimayu ne bylo, net, i ne predviditsya. Tak?
Udachi,
Hovik
__________________
Hovhannes Tumanyan,
CISSP
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26.05.2002, 13:18
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#32
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Профессор
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,938
Rep Power: 0
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Tumanyan, Vy opyat' osedlali svoj lyubimyj konek: neobosnovannye predpolozhenija.
1. SST razrabotan 4 goda nazad i kakim by on ni byl, uzhe 4 goda PRODAETSYA na amerikanskom korporativnom rynke...
2. Kompaniya proizvodyashaya SST - AMERIKANSKAYA, s filialom v Armenii. V Armenii naxodyatsya tol'ko programmisty, kotorye vypolnyayut ukazaniya rukovodstva naxodyashegosya v Boston, MA...
Xozyain firmy - amerikanec armyanskogo proisxozhdeniya, na amerikanskom softwernom rynke uzhe let 15.
3.Ya znayu po kraynej mere 3 softwernye kompanii v Armenii, kotorye rabotayut na urovne samyx vysokix mirovyx standartov, proizvodyat konkurentosposobnuyu produkciyu. Sredi klientov etix kompanij: Sylink, AMD, UNESCO, Europarlament, to name a few... Rebyata iz tech support etix kompanij provodyat 6-8 mesyacev v god v razyezdax po vsemu miru, ustanavlivaya i soprovozhdaya svoyu produkciyu...
Teper' obyasnite mne, plz prostuyu vesch. Pochemu Vy, a priori vstrechayete v shtyki vsyo, chto kasayetsya sozidatel'nogo truda v Armenii???
Neuzheli tak trudno NE yazvit', i pered tem kak prezritel'no otmaxnut'sya, xotya by pointeresovat'sya chto k chemu???
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26.05.2002, 14:14
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#33
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Бакалавр
Join Date: 03 2002
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Posts: 482
Rep Power: 0
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Originally posted by groul:
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Tumanyan, Vy opyat' osedlali svoj lyubimyj konek: neobosnovannye predpolozhenija.
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Ne viju v etom nichego ploxogo. Ya je ne delayu neobosnovannyx utverjdenij. Ya, vsego lish', predpolagayu. Esli moi predpolojeniya neverny - razubedite menya.
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1. SST razrabotan 4 goda nazad i kakim by on ni byl, uzhe 4 goda PRODAETSYA na amerikanskom korporativnom rynke...
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Chto oznachaet Amerikanskij korporativnyj rynok v vashej interpretacii? I, esli mojno, pokonkretnee, pojalujsta, s primerami firm i ix otzyvami.
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2. Kompaniya proizvodyashaya SST - AMERIKANSKAYA, s filialom v Armenii.
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Eto ni o chem ne govorit.
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V Armenii naxodyatsya tol'ko programmisty, kotorye vypolnyayut ukazaniya rukovodstva naxodyashegosya v Boston, MA...
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Eto uje namnogo lushshe. Uspokaivaet kak-to. 
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Xozyain firmy - amerikanec armyanskogo proisxozhdeniya, na amerikanskom softwernom rynke uzhe let 15.
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Opyat'-taki ni o chem ne govorit. Vremya naxojdeniya na rynke - ne pokazatel'. Pokazateli -reputaciya firmy, zarabotannye summy, ob'em prodaj, i.t.d.
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3.Ya znayu po kraynej mere 3 softwernye kompanii v Armenii, kotorye rabotayut na urovne samyx vysokix mirovyx standartov
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Standartov chego? Vot tut, pojalujsta popodrobnee... Imeete li vy vvidu, "vyskoix texnichesko/texnologicheskix standartov", ili chto-libo drugoe?
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Rebyata iz tech support etix kompanij provodyat 6-8 mesyacev v god v razyezdax po vsemu miru, ustanavlivaya i soprovozhdaya svoyu produkciyu...
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Eto ne ob HPLA li govoritsya? Esli da - dumayu, eta kompaniya ne mojet slujit' argumentom v nashem spore.
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Teper' obyasnite mne, plz prostuyu vesch. Pochemu Vy, a priori vstrechayete v shtyki vsyo, chto kasayetsya sozidatel'nogo truda v Armenii???
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Uvajaemyj opponent, esli by vy potrudilis' tshatel'nee oznakomit'sya s moej poziciej po voprosam, vyskazannym v dannom topike, i, tem bolee, proanalizirovat' ix, vy by zametili, chto ya ne vstrechayu v shtyki vse armyanskoe, otnyud'!!!
Vot spisok postulatov, vyskazannyx mnoyu v etom topike:
1. V Armenii ne sushestvuet razvitoj infrastruktury podderjki programm. Edinstvennaya firma, u kotoroj eta infrastruktura est': HPLA (kstati, moya alma mater).
2. Podavlyayushee bol'shinstvo programmistov (govorya "programmistov", ya, dlya prostoty, vklyuchayu v nix vsyo soobshestvo IT-specialistov) v Armenii ne imeyut predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm.... I eto menya ochen' pechalit. Ibo, esli situaciya budet ostavat'sya takoj, kak est' - armyanskaya IT industriya postepenno vymret. Ibo metody, primenyaemye v bol'shinstve firm yavlyayutsya ni chem inym kak kustarnym proizvodstvom.
3. Naxodyas' v Armenii nevozmojno proizvesti marketingovoe issledovanie rynka v celyax sozdaniya novogo produkta. Estestvenno, rech' idet ne ob armyanskom IT-rynke.Kak vy, dumayu, sami ponimaete : "Ne sushestvuet rynka IT v Armenii"
Naryadu s vyskazannymi faktami, ya priderjivayus' ubejdeniya, chto v Armenii sushestvuet dostatochno vysokoklassnyx programmistov, sposobnyx, PRI NALICHII SOOTVETSTVUYUSHIX USLOVIJ, sozdavat' produkty mirovogo klassa.
Pri etom, doljen konstatirovat' sleduyushij fakt: podobnye specialisty sushestvuyut vopreki imeyushemusya v Armenii polojeniyu.....
K sojaleniyu, vuzy, zanimayushiesya podgotovkoj programmistov, ne v sostoyanii okazat' svoim studentam v kakoj-libo mere znachitel'nuyu pomosh' v osovoenii budushej special'nosti.
Konsolidirovav poslednie 2 vyskazyvaniya, a takje informaciyu o mnogochislennyx sluchayax immigracii krutyx specov v drugie strany, lichno ya prixoju k neute****el'nomu vyvodu o tom, chto
skoro ix prosto ne budet v Armenii voobshe.
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Neuzheli tak trudno NE yazvit', i pered tem kak prezritel'no otmaxnut'sya, xotya by pointeresovat'sya chto k chemu???
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Govorit' pravdu v glaza != yazvit'.
groul, skajite, pojalujsta, na chem osnovyvayutsya vashi utverjdeniya o nevernosti moix predstavlenij naschet situacii vokrug IT v Armenii. Ne dopuskaete li vy mysli o tom, chto mojet vam sleduet podkorrektirovat' svoi pozicii?
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26.05.2002, 22:56
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#34
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Moderator
Join Date: 10 2001
Location: Yerevan
Posts: 5,466
Rep Power: 6
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Chtobi spor bil nemojko obosnovannoy pojaluysta posmotrite syuda
http://www.secureshuttle.com/
http://www.boomerangsoftware.com/
Nu yesli Amerikanci pokupayut etu programmu znachit chto to im nravitsa v nyom. Prosto za krasivie glaza ne kupili bi. "Ya tak dumayu"
Chto kasaetsa tovo chto lyubuyu shifrovku mojno lomat. Nu konechno mojno lomat i shifrovku Inoplanetyan no vse pryotsa v to chto skolko nado tratit vremya i deneg dlya vzloma.
I voobshe ya poshutil, no menya opyat ne ponyali  
__________________
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Արատտայի ու Խալդեյի հովանավոր . 
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26.05.2002, 23:12
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#35
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Депутат АрмОГ
Join Date: 02 2002
Location: Yerevan
Age: 45
Posts: 412
Rep Power: 0
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gates:
V ICQ-ui ti mojesh' soxranit' svoj Contact List?  I potom otkrit' ego na drugom kompe?
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ne ponyal chto ty imeesh' vvidu...., esli imeesh' vvidu v drugom kompe vnesti sobstvenniy nik ili #
to Contact List soxranyaetsya tol'ko v novoy versii ICQ 2002-a.
U menya komp isportilsya nedavno, potom snova sdelal instal ICQ 2002-a, i vnes moy # i pswd, i chto?!? Prosto kayf, vse niki moix druzey soxranilis' Ya tak obradovalsya, a to mne by prishlos' snova poisk delat' "Find friend"
Regards webmaster http://www.armenica.wizard.am
__________________
Regards
Armenica-About Armenia
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27.05.2002, 01:38
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#36
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The Reloaded
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: behind the flesh and gelatinе of soft dull eyes
Posts: 3,387
Rep Power: 5
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Quote:
Originally posted by avaron:
Contact List soxranyaetsya tol'ko v novoy versii ICQ 2002-a.
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однако это можно сделать и для более ранних версий. правда, не непосредственно через icq. для этого надо пойти на сайт aska.ru, почитать немного об их системе, там говорится об их боте с ником aska.ru, дан также его uin. так вот, просто высылаешь ему свои контакты (используя свой клинет), и они будут сохранены на их сайте. а их сайт предоставляет сервис icq через web, логинишься через их сайт (обычным браузером), и пользуйся на здоровье (тут же будут все твои контакты, которые ты выслал юзеру aska.ru). а кодга понадобиться вернуть контакты, просто снова высылаешь их аське.ру, но уже из-под веб-аськи. выходишь, логинишься на совем компе, и - о чудо! - получаешь свои контакты!
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27.05.2002, 06:20
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#37
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Профессор
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,938
Rep Power: 0
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2 Tumanyan
Blizhayshuy nedelyu budu sil'no zanyat, tak chto otvetit' na Vash post ne smogu.
Sorry
Ciao
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27.05.2002, 12:53
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#38
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Дошкольник
Join Date: 05 2002
Location: Yerevan
Posts: 76
Rep Power: 0
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gates:
Hetaqrqir kliner imanal dzer karciq@ http://sst.freenet.am-i masin.
U xi dzezanic mecamasnutyun@ chi ogtagorcum?
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Gates vortexic karox em download anel SSTn.?
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27.05.2002, 15:02
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#39
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Moderator
Join Date: 02 2002
Location: Armenia
Age: 43
Posts: 5,226
Rep Power: 6
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Quote:
Originally posted by AfroditA:
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Originally posted by Gates:
Hetaqrqir kliner imanal dzer karciq@ http://sst.freenet.am-i masin.
U xi dzezanic mecamasnutyun@ chi ogtagorcum?
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Gates vortexic karox em download anel SSTn.?
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http://sst.freenet.am/
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27.05.2002, 15:30
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#40
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Moderator
Join Date: 02 2002
Location: Armenia
Age: 43
Posts: 5,226
Rep Power: 6
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2. Podavlyayushee bol'shinstvo programmistov (govorya "programmistov", ya, dlya prostoty, vklyuchayu v nix vsyo soobshestvo IT-specialistov) v Armenii ne imeyut predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm.... I eto menya ochen' pechalit. Ibo, esli situaciya budet ostavat'sya takoj, kak est' - armyanskaya IT industriya postepenno vymret. Ibo metody, primenyaemye v bol'shinstve firm yavlyayutsya ni chem inym kak kustarnym proizvodstvom.
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K BS (Boomerang Software) eto ne otnosit'sya, tak kak BS uje 15 let pishet kommerchiskie projecti zachet kotorix on i jivyot, i podavlyayushee bol'shenstvo programmerov BS imeyut "predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm"
To Groul, menq miqich achel enq, hima Erevani BS-um ka Supporti bajin, Technical writingi ev Marketingi mec mas@ arvuma Hayastanic.
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27.05.2002, 23:42
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#41
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Профессор
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,938
Rep Power: 0
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2 Gates
Uremn Burunsudyanin barevir, ete hishi indz.
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27.05.2002, 23:44
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#42
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Бакалавр
Join Date: 03 2002
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Posts: 482
Rep Power: 0
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K BS (Boomerang Software) eto ne otnosit'sya, tak kak BS uje 15 let pishet kommerchiskie projecti zachet kotorix on i jivyot, i podavlyayushee bol'shenstvo programmerov BS imeyut "predstavleniya o processe sozdaniya kommercheskix programm"
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Gates, povidimomu, odin iz nas chego-to nedoponimaet.... Proyasnite dlya menya, pojalujsta, nekotorye detali:
1. Kakoj uroven' support - a obespechivaet vash support department v Erevane?
2. I kakim obrazom, marketing department, sidyashij v Erevane analiziruet rynok v Evrope ili US?
3. Yavlyaetes' li vy sotrudnikom buxgalterii BS? Esli net, na kakom osnovanii vy delaete vyvody o finansirovanii vashej organizacii? Neujeli, xozyain, ili sotrudniki buxgalterii dokladyvayut vam lichno?
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28.05.2002, 02:48
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#43
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Профессор
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,938
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2 Gates
Otprav' Tumanyanu bankovskij schet Tigrana, a to on ne uspokoitsya. ved' on UZHE RESHIL, chto v Armenii est' tol'ko odna firma - i to ta, v kotoroj on nachinal. Xotya do etogo utverzhdal chto takix firm v Armenii voobshe net.
A klienty Boomeranga tipa Compaq ili AOL dlya nego nichego ne znachat.
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28.05.2002, 05:44
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#44
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Бакалавр
Join Date: 03 2002
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Posts: 482
Rep Power: 0
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2 Groul:
Interesno, kak-to poluchaetsya...
S odnoj storony, vy, uvajaemyj, kidaetes' obvineniyami, s drugoj - otkazyvaetes' otvechat' za svoi sobstvennye slova, skryvayas' za maskoj zanyatosti.
S tret'ej - vsetaki, naxodite vremya dlya nizkointellektual'nyx (izvinite, no nichego inogo po etomu povodu skazat' nel'zya) zayavlenij v "shutlivom" tone.
Analiziruya perepisku s vami (v dannom topike), ya prixoju k edinstvennomu vyvodu: "Vy, groul, nesereznyj chelovek (myagko govorya), ne nesushij nikakoj otvetstvennosti za svoi slova". Pechal'no eto osozavat', ya byl o vas bolee vysokogo mneniya....
Tem ne menee, jelayu vsyacheskix uspexov,
Hovik
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28.05.2002, 08:33
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#45
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Профессор
Join Date: 01 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,938
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ya srazhen, Tumanyan jan, but I'll survive for sure 
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