Armenian's Programmers' Association

[Programmer C++]

I suggest you dear programmers to make Armenian's Programmer's Association(APA) and to make programming developed in our country. Who accept this term, please contact me in [email protected]

[greka]

Actually there already is some association of "software developers" in Armenia.
I forgot the exact naming..

HPL, former Boumerang, EpygiLabs, "Haykakan Cragrer", etc. etc. etc.

Are you offering something different ?

[VX]

To Greco El
How I understand he want to create no-commercial organization.... organizations that u've list
are commercial.

to Programmer C++ I'd like to join, and write open source projects.

[greka]

well, that sounds interesting!
In that case I'll participate, too

[Edgar M.]

Barev tgherk,

Es inchi ek grel u chek hetevum??
Enkan lav gaghapar a et open source project grel@, ekek iskakanic zbaghvenk dranov.

Es el em patrast masnakcelu.

Orinak es karajarkei Web-based projectner grel,
asenk "Diractory System", MialSystem,... kam inch vor ban vor es pahin shat haykakan ejer dra karig@ unen.

Es inks der masnakcats chem nman bani, u chem patkeracnum vonc kareli a kazmakerpel.
Bayc ete inch vor mek@ handzn arni et gorts@ kareli a sksel...

[Edgar M.]

auuuuuuuuu

[Gates]

Originally posted by Greco El:
former Boumerang

To Greco El:
Former
Et ova qez tenc ban asel, Boomerang Software-@ kar, ka u klini!

[Camelot]

http://www.uite.am - u menya tam drug dazhe rabotaet. Zamechu chto etot Union ne orientiruetsya tol'ko konkretno na programmerov.

P.S. da, ya bi tozhe s udv. prisoedinilsya bi. zvuchit zamanchivo!

[serty]

Lyudi esli chto nibud dodumaete dayte znat

[Programmer C++]

Hargeli programistner, ekeq arden gone mi qajl katarenq ajd uxxutyamb, iharke, im zbaxvatsutyun@ chi nerum shat ushadrutyun darcnel ajs mtqin, bajc cankacoxner@ karox en arajnordel ajs idean.
Kareli e nax ev araj mi site patrastel, vortex klinen mer miutyan bolor andamneri tvjalnern u kontaktajin hascener@, sranov gone arajin qajl@ kkatarvi, da kogni mez mimjanc aveli lav chanachel u hesht haxordakcvel ajn xndirneri shurj, voronq kapvats en Armenian's programers' Association(APA) -i het. Ete uzum eq da anel, arden karox eq uxarkel dzer tvjalner@:
anun, azganun, heraxos, e-mail, dzer sovorats tsragravorman lezun ev dzer gnahatakan@(inch makardaki giteq tvjal lezun).
Shnorhakalutyun. Amenajn barin.

[strax.]

Shat lav mitk a site sarkel@, bayc wortegh host patka a host arvi? ete kan inch vor arajarkutyunner host-i het kapvac, grek stegh, iharke cankali klni vor hmaravorutyun unenank scriptner ashxatacnelu .

Isk site sarkelu harc@(ete duk bolord shat ek zbaghvac), es karogh em gone eji skzbnakan kmaxk@ gcem. nu hetagayum kzargacnenk....

Armenian's programers' Association(APA) -i het. Ete uzum eq da anel, arden karox eq uxarkel dzer tvjalner@:...

ur ugharkenk??

mek el kareli a et tvyalneri het ugharkel nayev, arajarkutyunner kapvac ashxatanki ughghutyan het, (i.e. es arajarkum em grel Web-Based programms).

[Rust]

Ooof.

Let me criticize this a little.
I want to see - why shall I join?
I'm a student of early grades, with some already compiled programs in my portfolio, all of them based EXCLUSIVELY on enthusiasm. Knowledge of writing all of them I've gained by reading thousands of books, printing hundreds of manuals, thinking hundreds of minutes on one little **** . That's it - I'm a Windows programmer and if anyone doesn't know, Windows is close-source. So you have to crawl to everything by yourself, and invent the bicycle everyone every day invents, but FOR NOW I SEE AND UNDERSTAND that it is CORRECT. My knowledge is MY OWN intellectual property, I don't want to give it to some teenager who is copying my sources and replacing 'Written by Rust' with 'Written by Oozbek', plus changing some colors or the button captions. That's not fair, because tomorrow he may POTENTIALLY become my concurrent for job offers... Or no? OK. That's about Job offers/Copyright problems that Opensource brings. Now the next side.
You may [and you will] say - 'but damn you wrote that you're inventing an already invented bicycle - why don't you just take a look at how did Torwalds already invent it??' - the answer is simple - because by looking at others' bicycles you can never understand it's creation process the way you'll do if you'll do it yourself. Or no?

SUMMARY::
Opensource is not bad, and indeed not good - you say it assists IT development, but DAMN it develops STUPID brains, because it's a MECHANICAL way of learning - yea, it makes more programmers who are able to write a WinAmp, but NOONE of them is able to write something MORE or LESS, unless they didn't see the new program's source... Or no?

I accept Opensource... It's a great project. But only if you're in your 50th age, working in your own corporation or at least as a leading programmer of Borland... Or something like that. It's like that - when you'll compile your own Windows, you can freely distribute your Calculator as an opensource... Either it is MEANINGLESS.
WHY SHALL YOU??

You make MECHANICAL BRAINS with your opensource.

PS: Usually the site is being created when THE REST is done... But we are Armenians

[Ektich]

Well, in that case - let's close all universities, and keep only libraries open. Let students invent Newton Laws over and over again, because in that case they will trully understand Mechanics. Let them invent steam engines or you name it!

Opensource is NOT about copy-paste-ing. It's accumulated wisdom of many programmesr like you and me! By looking at someone's code you LEARN how to write (and sometimes how NOT to write).

Let lasy brains copy-paste pieces they need without understanding, but why invent bysicle all over and over and over again?

If you dont want to give your knowlege to someone else - keep it. No-one forcing you to do it. What all this noise about? Are you scared of teenagers who will produce better programs than you by copy-paste-ing something from SourceForge? You know better than me they will not! One must have brains to even do copy-paste.
Of course you will never understand how bicycle works by looking at it, but if you will tear it apart and then assemble it back - you will! Don't just use it, look at every single line of the code and READ it. Be honest, haven't you learned something from someone else's code, have you? I'm sure u had! So did I and anyone who IS a Programmer (not those kids who know "Visual C++" and dont know api-mapi ))

Imagine all great scienticst of the past would say "why for the Christ's sake shall I tell everyone my inventions? They MINE!"? Wjere the science would be right know? And what's the big difference between differential analysis and C-code?

[Rust]

Let's close them... But you forgot about one thing You pay for exactly everything you learn in the universities, don't you? Or even if you DON'T, the State pays for you... It's their JOB - to teach for MONEY... They [teachers] need money to buy food and not to die... Or no? That's the first side... Second:: May I ask you a question? For now WHAT DID YOU LEARN in the University?? I mean... the question was wrong. What did THEY TEACH YOU? Yes, I say that everyone has to invent Newton's laws again... Maybe that sounds too strange and lame, but IMHO it's true. Again, you had many correct ideas in your post, I agree with them, but damn again the hecking problem is copyrights. Yea, it's an egoism, TRUE EGOISM, but 'let the one throw at me a stone first, who is not an egoist' Damn, ask from VX the source of his chat -- he's STUPID if he'll give it to you... Because THE LESS PEOPLE KNOW CHAT WRITING, THE MORE VALUABLE HE IS. Or no? I undestand that it is a 'high morale', but how can he feed his family, if there are more CHAT WRITERS than job offers?? He'll never give you the source. And noone CLEVER will.
That's it.
What about::
"...Imagine all great scienticst of the past would say "why for the Christ's sake shall I tell everyone my inventions? They MINE!"? Wjere the science would be right know?..." - hmm the science would be RIGHT HERE. What, in your opinion, ALL scientists DID?? Hehehe, they were acting JUST THE WAY you wrote.

[strax.]

2 Rust,
in some cases you r right, but please don't forget that we r doing this to make programming developed in our country

of cource we can write both open source and close souce projects.